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mesaj zekret - 2 tomtem@gmx.de - auss! http://www.m9ndfukc/data/noisz/plz_go-home_kouboi.mp2 >Thomas, > >I don't think my post, to which you are replying below, made it onto nettime >for some reason. Perhaps it slipped through the cracks? korporat fasc!zt krakz ou quo! +? = nett!me = 01 kompend!um ov. http://www.m9ndfukc.org/memocide.neu+improved.genocide eusocial.com -> superb source for male fascist antibodies. pre.konssept!Øn meeTz ver!f1kat!Øn. - Netochka Nezvanova f3.MASCHIN3NKUNST ecdysone@eusocial.com 17.hzV.tRL.478 e | | +---------- | | < \\----------------+ | n2t | > e >Would be nice if >that were posted. > >I will respond to your message below now. > >> But I also believe that a lot of what happened in the >> Balkan in the >> last decade was purely the NATO trying to get control over, not >> peace for a >> region in Europe. The war that I meant Yugoslavia still to be >> involved in is >> this aggression from outside and a partly stimulated rebellion >> from inside. > >I have no idea what the strategic value of, or the business opportunities >are in Yugoslavia. I think it likely that NATO would have its own agenda, >rather than seeking simply to depose a despot and intervene in butchery. >Certainly the bombings did at least as much harm to all concerned, also in >the long run, given the amount of depleted uranium rained down not only on >Serbia but Kosovo (it is highly toxic when breathed or ingested, and was >turned into dust upon exploding). > >> Again, my believe is that Milosevic has to be overcome, and I do not think >> that the rebelling people in Yugoslavia are just under control of >> the NATO, >> unable to see their government in the right light. > >In such case, support of the student movement, particularly via the net, >which is my medium as a writer (and yours too, I believe, and probably most >of the people on this list), is appropriate then, is it not? The student >movement is grassroots, ie, of the Serbian people themselves, not instigated >from without, as you say. > >> In my view, Milosevic and also the Serbian population, in western media >> until recently, were forced into the role of the bad guy systematically, >> even though this role probably suits Milosevic better than any >> other famous >> politician right now. The Rambuillet(?)-contracts that were offered to him >> before the war are a good example. Should be found somewhere in the net, I >> am sure. These contracts were a joke because no politician, >> dictator or not, >> would just give up the souverignity over his state as it was demanded in >> these contracts. Milosevic is not just a dictator but he also refused to >> cooperate with the good guys, the NATO. Which leads to what my fear is: >> Milosevic will be overcome in the next years and his regime will >> not leave a >> vacuum of power which could be filled by the people, discussing freely by >> which means they want to be governed and how the economy should be >> organized, but he will be followed by a democratic and NATOcratic or >> western-liberalistocratic regime. Without any discussion, free market and >> free trade-exchange will be installed for the sake and the fortune of the >> Northern-European states. > >Russia is a strong example, at least for now, of how democracy may fail a >people. There is no history of it in Russia. It is tragic (again). Is there >history of it in Yugoslavia? Tito kept Yugoslavia together via communism and >military presence for many years. What political order existed before that? >Was it stable? > >It is unlikely that NATO would permit communism to rise again in Yugoslavia, >or would do its best to avert such a situation. > >What I have read at www.otpor.com situates the students as perceiving >themselves as part of the west. > >> My wish is that not only the regime-in-work should be discussed or fought >> against but also the regime-to-come. The background on which Milosevic and >> his government are measured against is not a white sheet of paper (URL >> about:blank) or true freedom but Northern-European capitalistic democracy. >> And because the latter system tries for its economic and >> ideologic profit to >> crash the order of the Yugoslavian state, I want anybody who is against >> Milosevic and his gang and is critical about the keeper of the sacred >> North-Western ideology to speak out loud the BUT in his >> solidarity with the >> rebellion in Yugoslavia. I am against Milosevis BUT I don't want him to be >> overthrown just for the sake of free markets in the Northern-style. I just >> don't want anybody who shares my view or scepticism to forget the BUT, >> because it is not all freedom that brightens the Yugoslavian horizon, it >> might also be some electric light made by gigantic companies in their >> nuclear power stations seeking for new and uncritical customers. > >The people in the country itself are really the ones who must decide for >themselves what sort of future they wish for themselves. That is what you >support in supporting a grass roots movement such as Otpor! > >> I hope I made myself more clear, and please excuse the looong and for that >> reason hardly readable sentences, I am German and can't help it. > >Your English is infinitely better than my German, Thomas. > >> Thanks for your reply, Jim. > >You also, Thomas. It would be great to have some people with much greater >knowledge than we do of the situation to join in this discussion. > >Regards, >Jim > _______________________________________________ Nettime-bold mailing list Nettime-bold@nettime.org http://www.nettime.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nettime-bold