Nmherman on 27 Dec 2000 04:58:43 -0000 |
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[Nettime-bold] The end of the debate, such as it was, between Herman and Ross |
Subj: RE: RHIZOME_RAW: David Ross Discusses Max Herman for Boxing Day Date: 12/26/2000 8:39:02 PM Central Standard Time From: daross51@pacbell.net (David A. Ross) To: Nmherman@aol.com Enough. This will be my last response to your ranting. ++ And this will be my last response to David Ross's recent attempt to shut me up using cheesy curator inveigling. I take it that Ross considers my writing to be ranting, worthless of consideration, whatever. Maybe this cold shoulder tactic works on weak dissenters, but I'm a strong dissenter with no bridges left to burn. In fact, all my bridges lay before me. I've got a good idea for a network and the technology to sustain it, so there you go. Alex is a fairly OK chap it seems, I pity him in a way, and since he asked me to quit attacking David Ross personally onlist I will. (I love that the most public, powerful, influential people always get to hide behind the illusion of personal space. As if it's not David Ross responsible for the SFMOMA; he's some kind of impartial steward of sacred principle and protected from personal accountability.) I'll just end by saying, to those who have ears to hear, that David Ross doesn't like and won't acknowledge Genius 2000, now or ever. He must know I'm forwarding his dismissal, and since it will include the word "ranting," he may hope to deceive the average art-spectator. This would work against worthless ideas but it will fail against Genius 2000. There must be a French word for his last response; "let him mange gateau" is all I can come up with offhand. Max Herman and his Network, Genius 2000, are indigestible to the Museums. I built this indigestibility into the concept from day one and have managed not to remove it. By now it is integral. The signatures against Steve Dietz will rack up as the disenfranchised seek an outlet, and David Ross's tenure will be marked by his unbelievably corporate managerial methods. After all, I know how to entertain the mob, and I can sense when they wish to speak. I love to hear them speak; it is like manna to me, rare and nutritious. So everybody out there, keep heart: the real game is not yet afoot. There will be artists of the elder caste, striving to brace and glorify the mighty institutions funded by the elitist rich, and there will be artists who pray never to be incorporated. I am thirty-one years old and I know the next half-century of media development will determine the planet's fate. I'll see it happen before my eyes. The greatest living historian, some guy from Oxford, says that the twentieth century didn't even need to happen. Idiots blundered into World War I and got their paycheck with World War 2. This guy is a real guy, someone reading this must know his name, and the other professors at Oxford hate his guts. His work renders generations of venereal scholarship leatherbound superstition. As Brad Brace keeps saying, the Art Museum is Not Your Friend. My career is going to prove this, by giving you all (well most) a new friend. Soon several judges of Conference 2000 will have new tapes, and Salvaggio will have his copy of Jockbuster. Vesna will be sent hers before the end of the year. The Video First Edition will air on cable access in Portland Maine. As next year's budget takes shape--and it will--much much more Network material than you can imagine will appear. We don't care if anyone likes it; we merely put it there. We know someday people will laugh with joy at what we did. ++ Misjudged, spoken-against, Take thought: I have weathered the storm; I have beaten out my exile. Last of all: If you want to influence or help boost the network, you may do so in many ways. you can email me to send links or texts; you can send me video or paper at Nickolas Herman, P.O. Box 14443, Minneapolis, Minnesota, 55414; you can do anything you like without telling me; you can think good thoughts; you can inform others and see what they do; you can do your own local version of Genius 2000. As for the artists who choose to align with the museums, I forgive you. you are not to blame anymore than Republicans. When you get right down to it I forgive everybody for whatever they do. I admit however that when one deals with artists, a good eye for leeches is a must and is something I try to cultivate. Max Herman The Genius 2000 Hut First 20 Millennium Hut Monitors Available Now http://www.geocities.com/genius-2000/2000hut.GIF -----Original Message----- From: owner-list@rhizome.org [mailto:owner-list@rhizome.org]On Behalf Of Nmherman@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 8:27 AM To: Genius2000Conference2000@egroups.com; nettime-l@BBS.THING.NET; list@rhizome.org; steve.dietz@walkerart.org Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: David Ross Discusses Max Herman for Boxing Day Subj: RE: RHIZOME_RAW: David Ross is a Disreputable Person Running aDisreputable Institution Date: 12/26/2000 2:03:53 AM Central Standard Time From: daross51@pacbell.net (David A. Ross) To: Nmherman@aol.com Dear Max: Are you out of your mind? >Shut fuck up about out of mind Your attack on me is unnecessary, unkind, and quite unfriendly. >If you respond to open letter, all happy again. I do recall my conversation with Peter Weibel, and I'm sure your comments were far more insightful than mine. >I question "internet more powerful than print press," you say, "This time revolution internal." Let world judge insight. Audience offended by your lack of insight, is all I said. Transcribe tape for all to see truth. I don't, however, recall your invitation to respond to an "open letter." >Maybe you filter out too much web art curious curator! See http://rhizome.org/object.rhiz?1866 for you to look! Unlike you, I still feel that I have a great deal to learn about the kind of art that is being made online. I am not at all dogmatic. I profess nothing but curiosity, open-mindedness, and respect for what artists try to do, day-to-day. >Not believing you good sir from inside your carpet office. Also know you describe self wrong, unintentional so what? I remain resolute in my optimism and hopeful that art will in the end enable us to be more, not less, human. >Bon idee, pero che faro senza Euridice? Dove andro? 3rd Street? I think I understand your cynicism >Unintentional curious and much to learn! Delenda est Carthago. and feel badly if you are actually so embittered. I also understand that your antagonistic pose is part of your shtick, >Getting you fired is part of shtick too for you to enjoy. and that some people find it amusing. With all due respect Max, I find it a bit pathetic, and a tad empty. >Poor suffering director with no good enough art to direct! So sad! As I said before, holiday greetings to you and yours. >President Clinton already send, so you send yours to Brad Brace prego! David A. Ross Nickolas M. Herman -----Original Message----- From: owner-list@rhizome.org [mailto:owner-list@rhizome.org]On Behalf Of Nmherman@aol.com Sent: Monday, December 25, 2000 7:06 PM To: Genius2000Conference2000@egroups.com; nettime-l@BBS.THING.NET; list@rhizome.org Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: David Ross is a Disreputable Person Running aDisreputable Institution Subj: RE: RHIZOME_RAW: IBM&Intel push copy protection into ordinary diskdrives Date: 12/23/2000 4:53:36 PM Central Standard Time From: daross51@pacbell.net (David A. Ross) [Director of SFMOMA] To: Nmherman@aol.com Dear Max Herman: Holiday greetings to you as well, and may all your wishes for fame and power come true. David ++ I take it you won't respond to the open letter regarding your theory of "internal revolution" to be brought by the internet. Remember the audience during your speech with Weibel, back in '99, and how they said "the internet is so new and all your comments and ideas about are so stale and cliche"? I do. It's on the tape you made too, I'll request access to it one day. Perhaps you better lose it somehow. An open question: Do you trust David Ross to do what's right? I don't. I've met him and seen many of his posts, and I say he's just another corporate weasel who works for the rich. For more background on this dispute, check www.egroups.com/group/Genius2000Conference2000 and http://www.geocities.com/genius-2000/Archive2000.html (SFMOMA82700). Ross, you're a bum! Max Herman The Genius 2000 Network -----Original Message----- From: owner-list@rhizome.org [mailto:owner-list@rhizome.org]On Behalf Of Nmherman@aol.com Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 12:56 PM To: media@web.net; un-media@egroups.com; cyberculture@zacha.org; MediaReality-L@mailserv.fao.org; list@rhizome.org; syndicate@aec.at; nettime-l@BBS.THING.NET; mediamentor@egroups.com; Genius2000Conference2000@egroups.com Cc: VoteGenius2000@egroups.com Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: IBM&Intel push copy protection into ordinary diskdrives ++ The new agenda for digital art at the SFMOMA is paid for by Intel. Why don't we all get out there and start getting some. Let's get some. Let's get some. David Ross, fuck you. Hard. It's a sin not to act. Delenda est Sfmomo. Many humans die grasping for the things we are allowing to be murdered. Come on fuckers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Max Herman The Genius 2000 Network http://rhizome.org/object.rhiz?1866 Now is the time + http://www.entropy8zuper.org/skinonskinonskin -> Rhizome.org -> post: list@rhizome.org -> questions: info@rhizome.org -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/subscribe.rhiz -> give: http://rhizome.org/support + Subscribers to Rhizome Raw are subject to the terms set out in the Member Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php3 ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <daross51@pacbell.net> Received: from rly-yb02.mx.aol.com (rly-yb02.mail.aol.com [172.18.146.2]) by air-yb04.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Tue, 26 Dec 2000 03:03:53 -0500 Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by rly-yb02.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Tue, 26 Dec 2000 03:03:35 -0500 Received: from vaio ([216.103.108.202]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G6600K9X0TXYS@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for Nmherman@aol.com; Mon, 25 Dec 2000 23:58:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 00:01:34 -0800 From: "David A. Ross" <daross51@pacbell.net> Subject: RE: RHIZOME_RAW: David Ross is a Disreputable Person Running aDisreputable Institution In-reply-to: <3e.54660c0.277964ff@aol.com> To: Nmherman@aol.com Message-id: <NEBBIFAHCKFDKDALEDCOIEBJCGAA.daross51@pacbell.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) + bananen burg -> Rhizome.org -> post: list@rhizome.org -> questions: info@rhizome.org -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/subscribe.rhiz -> give: http://rhizome.org/support + Subscribers to Rhizome Raw are subject to the terms set out in the Member Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php3 ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <daross51@pacbell.net> Received: from rly-yd03.mx.aol.com (rly-yd03.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.3]) by air-yd05.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Tue, 26 Dec 2000 21:39:02 -0500 Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by rly-yd03.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Tue, 26 Dec 2000 21:38:35 -0500 Received: from vaio ([216.103.108.202]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G6700AUYGKEZ6@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for Nmherman@aol.com; Tue, 26 Dec 2000 18:36:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 18:39:03 -0800 From: "David A. Ross" <daross51@pacbell.net> Subject: RE: RHIZOME_RAW: David Ross Discusses Max Herman for Boxing Day In-reply-to: <4a.f49693d.277a20be@aol.com> To: Nmherman@aol.com Message-id: <NEBBIFAHCKFDKDALEDCOKEBNCGAA.daross51@pacbell.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) _______________________________________________ Nettime-bold mailing list Nettime-bold@nettime.org http://www.nettime.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nettime-bold