philip pocock on Sat, 22 Feb 2003 18:18:01 +0100 (CET)


[Date Prev] [Date Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]

[Nettime-bold] Fwd: <nettime> My dissens with Pocock


seems like we ought to end this thread heiko, little open interest on 
the list and actually you drift into unmovie and i was approaching not 
work i am involved with but issues of embargo as discourse concerning 
ami and aussie media culture. its not that interesting. last response 
from me unless fresh insight arrives from others on the list. sorry if 
we have gone on too long already to list members.

Anfang der weitergeleiteten E-Mail:

> Von: philip pocock <philip.pocock@t-online.de>
> Datum: Sat, 22. Feb. 2003  18:15:05 Europe/Berlin
> An: Heiko Recktenwald <uzs106@IBM.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
> Kopie: philip pocock <philip.pocock@t-online.de>
> Betreff: Re: <nettime> My dissens with Pocock
>
>
> Am Saturday den, 22. February 2003, um 12:25, schrieb Heiko Recktenwald:
>
>> Sorry for typos, but this is allready the center of the problem:
>>
>> There are important things, for men, and things, that arent importatnt 
>> at
>> all.
>
> men? things? alone in one breath?
>
>> Only machines need exactness, exactness is needed for a certain kind
>> of controlling and such controlling isnt important at all.
>
> machines are as inexact as any synthetic person-inspired object. 
> exactness is control and machines software machines if one may term 
> them machines, (paintings were also called machines in france in the 
> 19th c.) which question and subvert a false sense of controlis what i 
> was bringing up heiko in my previous mail thread.
>
>>  It leads to
>> things like the DMCA with its penal law approach, not to mention the 
>> Berne
>> convention and fair use and the hollywood/dvdplayerindustries forced(?)
>> agreements (is a dvd player that ignores hollywood a circumvention in 
>> the
>> sense of DMCA or is then there simply no DRM at all?) A content 
>> industry
>> with measure of the eye would maybe play with DRM, but just as technic,
>> without the ugly penal side of things, DMCA is like afghanistan....
>>
>> Saw Pococks unmovie project only once or twice, in Cologne, in 
>> Karlsruhe
>> it wasnt on, well, now it had some nice sides...(as a sculpture or
>> whatever, no kidding).
>>
> heiko i am one of a number of group authors of unmovie, alphabetically 
> i am third on the list. my role in the band is songwriter/composer, 
> gregor takes care of drums and spacial resonance, axel is on 
> keyboards... and our camerateam is anonymous and too numerous to list 
> anyway. please no media star or protagonist rhetoric. that is key to 
> artists working with nets, essential to reflect upon the form the art, 
> if its art, takes on the other side, if its an other side of the 
> production mirror.
>
>> The first thing I saw was some algorithm driven triviality, name of 
>> famous
>> philosophers were floating over a flash animation. Exact database 
>> things.
>
> its called poetry, and great that you term even geisha, a combine of an 
> m-f chatlog a great philosopher. the bots are cast and they come and 
> go. they are simply text files. and the bots learn language from the 
> online users and not from each other. the code is quite trivial, i 
> prefer to call it elegant and simple. why not. it is based on open 
> source ai code that studies texts using markov chains. this way our 
> bots could work in any language at all. yet our tweaking of code is i 
> defy you to say not as simple as all that. if you wish and you feel it 
> so trivial please log on and give up a hand. :-)
>>
>> Compare this to the magic of orang.orang.org or the magic of reading
>> logfiles. There is place for imagination. There are some exact things, 
>> for
>> example you see that uscourts.gov or disney or dreamworks has visited 
>> you,
>> you know that somebody with irix 64 from kansas city plant needs 
>> exactly 3
>> minutes to click on the only not so trivial link, but you dont see why.
>>
> we build this level in not as 'magic' how romantic, just as banal 
> common tech rich media people think enough of to digitize and put on 
> line and which we relate to enough to sample for our cyberanthro doc of 
> issues in cspace.
>
> there are almost no comparisons other than odious ones to make between 
> orang and the current work we do. there are with much earlier net-based 
> works i have been involved with and even then the comparison makes 
> little sense. its not a beauty contest, its too rather different works, 
> apples and oranges.
>
>> Well, there is place for imagination in Pococks unmovie too, but 
>> somewhere
>> else. His exactness isnt about real life but exact nonsense.
>>
>>
> thank you. i suggest you reaad cinema ii time-image from deleuze and 
> take a look at the film writings of malevich to save some time between 
> us. our work is no illustration, it extends and connects and drifts 
> from a totally irrational base in which space for personal emerging 
> logic is available not predigested as you seem to prefer. we dont feed 
> images we place them in a present.
>
> p
>>
>> H.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> #  distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
>> #  <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
>> #  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
>> #  more info: majordomo@bbs.thing.net and "info nettime-l" in the msg 
>> body
>> #  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net
>>
>>
philip pocock
gabelsbergerstr. 1 d-76135 karlsruhe germany
mobile/sms +49 1707 369 870
tel +49 721 845 715  fax +49 721 830 2714

the more we share, the more we have. - l.nimoy
>

_______________________________________________
Nettime-bold mailing list
Nettime-bold@nettime.org
http://amsterdam.nettime.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nettime-bold