Paul D. Miller on Fri, 10 Jan 2003 02:38:03 +0100 (CET) |
[Date Prev] [Date Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]
<nettime> Bennu's piece & hip-hop digest |
HI Coco, Mendi, Ken, Art, Danny et al folks - sorry about the delay in communications. I've been mad hectic with various tings... and that slows communications down...you know how it goes... Coco - your points in your piece about intellectual culture and hip-hop are well taken. There's an immense disconnect between those who think "theory" and culture as it's practiced are or should be divorced from one another. I tend to think of everything in terms of blurs, and don't necessarily see any distinction between race, class, social hierarchy, and sound as a signifier and emblem of how culture functions in the age of cybernetic replication. For any of us that take hip-hop seriously, this has been a grave issue for a while: how to deal with turning your world inside out - private discourse made publice, an artificial scarcity of expression in a world of hyper controlled communications. Does this sound too dry? Sometimes a story works better: I remember being in Tokyo around this time last year and doing a show with an old friend of mine, Dj Krush, and some new folks on the block, Anticon. Anticon are young white kids from middle America. They were doing a collaboration with Krush - a song called "Song for John Walker" - the white kid who joined the Taliban... needless to seay, the backstage vibe was all about dialog and we were all just kicking it. Krush's wife walked in and handed him a samurai sword before his set, and everyone in the room was... ummm... kind of silent. In a moment like that, the strageness (strange-mess) of global culture, hip-hop, and the overall reality of my surroundings as a dj who operates on a global level, crsytalized before my eyes: there was no way I was operating in the normal Aerican fashion of taking things for granted. we all sat there and paused for a second (it really felt like a video still in some art film - maybe I should do a video short 'bout that - I wonder what Franklin Sirmans and Thelma Golden would think about that... ha ha... but anyway...). Krush doesn't speak English, and me and him have communicated mostly with beats over the years. The show was a benefit for Afghani war orphans at Tokyo's Liquid Room in the Shinjuku district, and well... you just had to feel the strangeness of being in a room with some white Americans talking about a Republican Lawyers kid who read Malcolm X and defected to a terrorist organization, and a Japanese kid who prayed with his family and was into Shinto buddhism chants before he went on stage to do turntable tricks... stuff like that doesn't fit into any normal categorization of "hip-hop" that normal America wants, and it never will. That's the joy of being able to see how this stuff is unfolding in a real way across the globe - it's almost exactly a social approximation of the way web culture collapses distinnctions between geography and expression, and it's almost as if the main issues of the day are all about how people are adjusting to the strangeness of being in a "simultaneous" world - there's an old William Gibson phrase - "the future is already here... it's just unevenly distributed." That's what it feels like these days as I travel and see how different the layers of how people engage digital culture are, and how hip-hop has become such a strangely grassroots phenomenon. I tend to think of electronic music as the "folk music of the early 21st century." So who is the folk of this folks? As Aldous Huxley in his "The Perennial Philosophy" (one of my new favorites in these totalitarian times) said: "to expiate further on the modern weltanschauung is unnecessary; explicitly or by implication it is set forth on every page of the advertising sections of every newspaper and magazine..." bounce this phrase off of stuff like J-Live's "Not Satisfied" off of his album "All of the Above" (ummm... he's on my next album by the way... I just did a project with Mad Professor and Lee Scratch Perry and had J-Live rhyme over the first single from the "Optometry" album - free jazz meets beats in the remixed city... or something like that.). Anyway, if you're interested in the art-side of hip-hop, check out my Marcel Duchamp remix ( M.C. Duchamp... ha ha) at L.A.'s Museum of Contemporary Art: http://www.moca.org/museum/dg_detail.php?dgDetail=pmiller or check out some of J-Live's Lyrics: Check the lyrics to "Satisfied?" and you'll get a drift of what I'm talking about here (lyrics courtesy of the "Original Hip-hop Lyrics Archive" - http://www.ohhla.com/ Hey yo Lights, camera, tragedy, comedy, romance You better dance from your fighting stance Or you'll never have a fighting chance In the rat race Where the referee's son started way in advance But still you livin' the American Dream Silk PJ's, sheets and down pillows Who the fuck would wanna wake up? You got it good like hot sex after the break up Your four car garage it's just more space to take up You even bought your mom a new whip scrap the jalopy Thousand dollar habit, million dollar hobby You a success story everybody wanna copy But few work for it, most get jerked for it If you think that you could ignore it, you're ig-norant A fat wallet still never made a man free They say to eat good, yo, you gotta swallow your pride But dead that game plan, I'm not satisfied [Chorus] The poor get worked, the rich get richer The world gets worse, do you get the picture? The poor gets dead, the rich get depressed The ugly get mad, the pretty get stressed The ugly get violent, the pretty get gone The old get stiff, the young get stepped on Whoever told you that it was all good lied So throw your fists up if you not satisfied {*Singing*} Are you satisfied? I'm not satisfied Hey yo, the air's still stale The anthrax got my Ole Earth wearin' a mask and gloves to get a meal I know a older guy that lost twelve close peeps on 9-1-1 While you kickin' up punchlines and puns Man fuck that shit, this is serious biz By the time Bush is done, you won't know what time it is If it's war time or jail time, time for promises And time to figure out where the enemy is The same devils that you used to love to hate They got you so gassed and shook now, you scared to debate The same ones that traded books for guns Smuggled drugs for funds And had fun lettin' off forty-one But now it's all about NYPD caps And Pentagon bumper stickers But yo, you still a nigga It ain't right them cops and them firemen died The shit is real tragic, but it damn sure ain't magic It won't make the brutality disappear It won't pull equality from behind your ear It won't make a difference in a two-party country If the president cheats, to win another four years Now don't get me wrong, there's no place I'd rather be The grass ain't greener on the other genocide But tell Huey Freeman don't forget to cut the lawn And uproot the weeds Cuz I'm not satisfied [Chorus] {*Singing*} All this genocide Is not justified Are you satisfied? I'm not satisfied Yo, poison pushers making paper off of pipe dreams They turned hip-hop to a get-rich-quick scheme The rich minorities control the gov'ment But they would have you believe we on the same team So where you stand, huh? What do you stand for? Sit your ass down if you don't know the answer Serious as cancer, this jam demands your undivided attention Even on the dance floor Grab the bull by the horns, the bucks by the antlers Get yours, what're you sweatin' the next man for? Get down, feel good to this, let it ride But until we all free, I'll never be satisfied [Chorus] - Repeat 2x {*Singing with talking in background*} Are you satisfied? (whoever told you that it was all good lied) I'm not satisfied (Throw your fists up if you not satisfied) Are you satisfied? (Whoever told you that it was all good lied) I'm not satisfied (So throw your fists up) (So throw your fists up) (Throw your fists up) http://www.ohhla.com/ >Greetings all. I've never posted here before, but do read from time to time. I >appreciate all the discussion on Pierre Bennu's piece. I want to add that it's >important to realize that Bennu is not just writing as a former listener of >hip-hop or not even just as an artist, as a filmmaker - painter - DJ (all of >which he is), but as a black man of that generation which is sometimes called >the hip-hop generation. Perhaps because he and Jamyla Bennu are my friends and >I have both danced to Pierre's mixes in public and sat on his floor and >listening to his albums, I know that, whatever he may feel about "hip-hop" (as >a signifier) he is also a lover of hip-hop (as a collection of aesthetic >forms). But I think I also know these things because I can read the signs. > >Sure, you could say "ho hum, your generation is over" or "what is this essay >supposed to do but be a minority perspective" if you believe that hip-hop is >just some songs some people like and some people don't. But "Fuck Hip-hop" >isn't just a way of saying "I don't like the kids' music anymore" or "What >happened to the good old days?" I understand it as a way of voicing the >frustrations of the many many many living breathing black artist-intellectuals >who desire to speak through the forms which, in addition to being in some ways >aesthetically attractive to us, define us in the eyes of so many AND of >refusing to get caught by a stray bullet. But maybe I am presuming >to speak for >him, which I probably shouldn't do. > >Speaking for myself, I know I want control over my own representation. I want >hip-hop but I don't want hip-hop. So what, right? But it's not just a question >of what I like, it's also what gets associated with me or with my people's >music. "The consumption of racialized spectacle," as Coco Fusco wrote, "often >functions as a substitute for [interpersonal or inter-group race relations]" >and that has real impact on our lives and the reading our or work. It's >important to realize that some of us are just listening to the music we like >and some of us had better duck when an industry head decides to make an image >in the medium because whatever happens in it is read on our bodies >and our art. >At many turns, I find it hard to (all at once) distance myself from what is >hurtful about the way many industry players (of different races, in all >positions) are playing (with) hip-hop, love my self fiercely and loudly, make >art that is influenced by the other art I find attractive, and allow myself to >be represented by forms that, while still moving, are often and perhaps >inextricably woven with ideas which are against me. But as a woman I >am allowed >less authority with which to represent hip-hop and therefore carry less of the >burden of the violence and wastefulness which hip-hop has come to represent in >the media. I haven't always needed to articulate my distance from hip-hop in >the way Bennu and other black men in my generation do because not all of what >is thrust upon them is thrust upon me. I'll end by saying that I read the >statement as a claim to power, a rejection of what hates us, and an >affirmation >of Bennu's selfhood. But saying "Fuck Hip-Hop" is not a dismissal of >the music, >it is the impassioned goodbye of one who, loving the sinking ship, >nevertheless >chooses to swim. > >Peace, >Mendi > > nettime-l-digest <owner-nettime-l-digest@bbs.thing.net> wrote: > >However I still think Bennu's piece did not display contemporary familiarity >with the field he was talking about, and this limits its uses for critique. >(I'm not saying he doesn't have that familiarity, but it's not much in >evidence in the article). I'm really not sure how Bennu's article is >supposed to do anything other than reflect a certain feeling that a >well-defined minority of hip-hop listeners will hold. (I guess that makes it >hip-hop in the sense that I can see all that groups heads nodding - "yeah, >damn right!" :). But I don't think it's going to change the minds of anyone. >As much for methodology as content, I'd prefer someone like Oliver Wang's >take. He supports true hip-hop as critically as any other journalist out >there (even venturing into areas like Spin to do it), rather than running it >down. check it out y'all if yr interested... (his mixtapes are also sweet) > >. . . > > > Carl Guderian <carlg@vermilion-sands.com> > > >If Bennu's had it with hip-hop, then good. The sooner intellectuals write off >hip-hop, the better. Then it can be itself, for better or worse. > >Carl >(occasionally DJ REX84) > ># distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission ># <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, ># collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets ># more info: majordomo@bbs.thing.net and "info nettime-l" in the msg body ># archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net ============================================================================ "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free...." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Port:status>OPEN wildstyle access: www.djspooky.com Paul D. Miller a.k.a. Dj Spooky that Subliminal Kid Office Mailing Address: Subliminal Kid Inc. 101 W. 23rd St. #2463 New York, NY 10011 --============_-1169992263==_ma============ Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" <fontfamily><param>Geneva</param>HI Coco, Mendi, Ken, Art, Danny et al folks - sorry about the delay in communications. I've been mad hectic with various tings... and that slows communications down...you know how it goes... Coco - your points in your piece about intellectual culture and hip-hop are well taken. There's an immense disconnect between those who think "theory" and culture as it's practiced are or should be divorced from one another. I tend to think of everything in terms of blurs, and don't necessarily see any distinction between race, class, social hierarchy, and sound as a signifier and emblem of how culture functions in the age of cybernetic replication. For any of us that take hip-hop seriously, this has been a grave issue for a while: how to deal with turning your world inside out - private discourse made publice, an artificial scarcity of expression in a world of hyper controlled communications. Does this sound too dry? Sometimes a story works better: I remember being in Tokyo around this time last year and doing a show with an old friend of mine, Dj Krush, and some new folks on the block, Anticon. Anticon are young white kids from middle America. They were doing a collaboration with Krush - a song called "Song for John Walker" - the white kid who joined the Taliban... needless to seay, the backstage vibe was all about dialog and we were all just kicking it. Krush's wife walked in and handed him a samurai sword before his set, and everyone in the room was... ummm... kind of silent. In a moment like that, the strageness (strange-mess) of global culture, hip-hop, and the overall reality of my surroundings as a dj who operates on a global level, crsytalized before my eyes: there was no way I was operating in the normal Aerican fashion of taking things for granted. we all sat there and paused for a second (it really felt like a video still in some art film - maybe I should do a video short 'bout that - I wonder what Franklin Sirmans and Thelma Golden would think about that... ha ha... but anyway...). Krush doesn't speak English, and me and him have communicated mostly with beats over the years. The show was a benefit for Afghani war orphans at Tokyo's Liquid Room in the Shinjuku district, and well... you just had to feel the strangeness of being in a room with some white Americans talking about a Republican Lawyers kid who read Malcolm X and defected to a terrorist organization, and a Japanese kid who prayed with his family and was into Shinto buddhism chants before he went on stage to do turntable tricks... stuff like that doesn't fit into any normal categorization of "hip-hop" that normal America wants, and it never will. That's the joy of being able to see how this stuff is unfolding in a real way across the globe - it's almost exactly a social approximation of the way web culture collapses distinnctions between geography and expression, and it's almost as if the main issues of the day are all about how people are adjusting to the strangeness of being in a "simultaneous" world - there's an old William Gibson phrase - "the future is already here... it's just unevenly distributed." That's what it feels like these days as I travel and see how different the layers of how people engage digital culture are, and how hip-hop has become such a strangely grassroots phenomenon. I tend to think of electronic music as the "folk music of the early 21st century." So who is the folk of this folks? As Aldous Huxley in his "The Perennial Philosophy" (one of my new favorites in these totalitarian times) said: "to expiate further on the modern weltanschauung is unnecessary; explicitly or by implication it is set forth on every page of the advertising sections of every newspaper and magazine..." bounce this phrase off of stuff like J-Live's "Not Satisfied" off of his album "All of the Above" (ummm... he's on my next album by the way... I just did a project with Mad Professor and Lee Scratch Perry and had J-Live rhyme over the first single from the "Optometry" album - free jazz meets beats in the remixed city... or something like that.). Anyway, if you're interested in the art-side of hip-hop, check out my Marcel Duchamp remix ( M.C. Duchamp... ha ha) at L.A.'s Museum of Contemporary Art: </fontfamily>http://www.moca.org/museum/dg_detail.php?dgDetail=pmiller <fontfamily><param>Geneva</param>or check out some of J-Live's Lyrics: Check the lyrics to "Satisfied?" and you'll get a drift of what I'm talking about here (lyrics courtesy of the "Original Hip-hop Lyrics Archive" - http://www.ohhla.com/ Hey yo Lights, camera, tragedy, comedy, romance You better dance from your fighting stance Or you'll never have a fighting chance In the rat race Where the referee's son started way in advance But still you livin' the American Dream Silk PJ's, sheets and down pillows Who the fuck would wanna wake up? You got it good like hot sex after the break up Your four car garage it's just more space to take up You even bought your mom a new whip scrap the jalopy Thousand dollar habit, million dollar hobby You a success story everybody wanna copy But few work for it, most get jerked for it If you think that you could ignore it, you're ig-norant A fat wallet still never made a man free They say to eat good, yo, you gotta swallow your pride But dead that game plan, I'm not satisfied [Chorus] The poor get worked, the rich get richer The world gets worse, do you get the picture? The poor gets dead, the rich get depressed The ugly get mad, the pretty get stressed The ugly get violent, the pretty get gone The old get stiff, the young get stepped on Whoever told you that it was all good lied So throw your fists up if you not satisfied {*Singing*} Are you satisfied? I'm not satisfied Hey yo, the air's still stale The anthrax got my Ole Earth wearin' a mask and gloves to get a meal I know a older guy that lost twelve close peeps on 9-1-1 While you kickin' up punchlines and puns Man fuck that shit, this is serious biz By the time Bush is done, you won't know what time it is If it's war time or jail time, time for promises And time to figure out where the enemy is The same devils that you used to love to hate They got you so gassed and shook now, you scared to debate The same ones that traded books for guns Smuggled drugs for funds And had fun lettin' off forty-one But now it's all about NYPD caps And Pentagon bumper stickers But yo, you still a nigga It ain't right them cops and them firemen died The shit is real tragic, but it damn sure ain't magic It won't make the brutality disappear It won't pull equality from behind your ear It won't make a difference in a two-party country If the president cheats, to win another four years Now don't get me wrong, there's no place I'd rather be The grass ain't greener on the other genocide But tell Huey Freeman don't forget to cut the lawn And uproot the weeds Cuz I'm not satisfied [Chorus] {*Singing*} All this genocide Is not justified Are you satisfied? I'm not satisfied Yo, poison pushers making paper off of pipe dreams They turned hip-hop to a get-rich-quick scheme The rich minorities control the gov'ment But they would have you believe we on the same team So where you stand, huh? What do you stand for? Sit your ass down if you don't know the answer Serious as cancer, this jam demands your undivided attention Even on the dance floor Grab the bull by the horns, the bucks by the antlers Get yours, what're you sweatin' the next man for? Get down, feel good to this, let it ride But until we all free, I'll never be satisfied [Chorus] - Repeat 2x {*Singing with talking in background*} Are you satisfied? (whoever told you that it was all good lied) I'm not satisfied (Throw your fists up if you not satisfied) Are you satisfied? (Whoever told you that it was all good lied) I'm not satisfied (So throw your fists up) (So throw your fists up) (Throw your fists up) http://www.ohhla.com/ <excerpt>Greetings all. I've never posted here before, but do read from time to time. I appreciate all the discussion on Pierre Bennu's piece. I want to add that it's important to realize that Bennu is not just writing as a former listener of hip-hop or not even just as an artist, as a filmmaker - painter - DJ (all of which he is), but as a black man of that generation which is sometimes called the hip-hop generation. Perhaps because he and Jamyla Bennu are my friends and I have both danced to Pierre's mixes in public and sat on his floor and listening to his albums, I know that, whatever he may feel about "hip-hop" (as a signifier) he is also a lover of hip-hop (as a collection of aesthetic forms). But I think I also know these things because I can read the signs. Sure, you could say "ho hum, your generation is over" or "what is this essay supposed to do but be a minority perspective" if you believe that hip-hop is just some songs some people like and some people don't. But "Fuck Hip-hop" isn't just a way of saying "I don't like the kids' music anymore" or "What happened to the good old days?" I understand it as a way of voicing the frustrations of the many many many living breathing black artist-intellectuals who desire to speak through the forms which, in addition to being in some ways aesthetically attractive to us, define us in the eyes of so many AND of refusing to get caught by a stray bullet. But maybe I am presuming to speak for him, which I probably shouldn't do. Speaking for myself, I know I want control over my own representation. I want hip-hop but I don't want hip-hop. So what, right? But it's not just a question of what I like, it's also what gets associated with me or with my people's music. "The consumption of racialized spectacle," as Coco Fusco wrote, "often functions as a substitute for [interpersonal or inter-group race relations]" and that has real impact on our lives and the reading our or work. It's important to realize that some of us are just listening to the music we like and some of us had better duck when an industry head decides to make an image in the medium because whatever happens in it is read on our bodies and our art. At many turns, I find it hard to (all at once) distance myself from what is hurtful about the way many industry players (of different races, in all positions) are playing (with) hip-hop, love my self fiercely and loudly, make art that is influenced by the other art I find attractive, and allow myself to be represented by forms that, while still moving, are often and perhaps inextricably woven with ideas which are against me. But as a woman I am allowed less authority with which to represent hip-hop and therefore carry less of the burden of the violence and wastefulness which hip-hop has come to represent in the media. I haven't always needed to articulate my distance from hip-hop in the way Bennu and other black men in my generation do because not all of what is thrust upon them is thrust upon me. I'll end by saying that I read the statement as a claim to power, a rejection of what hates us, and an affirmation of Bennu's selfhood. But saying "Fuck Hip-Hop" is not a dismissal of the music, it is the impassioned goodbye of one who, loving the sinking ship, nevertheless chooses to swim. Peace, Mendi nettime-l-digest <<owner-nettime-l-digest@bbs.thing.net> wrote: However I still think Bennu's piece did not display contemporary familiarity with the field he was talking about, and this limits its uses for critique. (I'm not saying he doesn't have that familiarity, but it's not much in evidence in the article). I'm really not sure how Bennu's article is supposed to do anything other than reflect a certain feeling that a well-defined minority of hip-hop listeners will hold. (I guess that makes it hip-hop in the sense that I can see all that groups heads nodding - "yeah, damn right!" :). But I don't think it's going to change the minds of anyone. As much for methodology as content, I'd prefer someone like Oliver Wang's take. He supports true hip-hop as critically as any other journalist out there (even venturing into areas like Spin to do it), rather than running it down. check it out y'all if yr interested... (his mixtapes are also sweet) . . . Carl Guderian <<carlg@vermilion-sands.com> If Bennu's had it with hip-hop, then good. The sooner intellectuals write off hip-hop, the better. Then it can be itself, for better or worse. Carl (occasionally DJ REX84) # distributed via <<nettime>: no commercial use without permission # <<nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: majordomo@bbs.thing.net and "info nettime-l" in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net </excerpt></fontfamily> ============================================================================ "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free...." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Port:status>OPEN wildstyle access: www.djspooky.com Paul D. Miller a.k.a. Dj Spooky that Subliminal Kid Office Mailing Address: Subliminal Kid Inc. 101 W. 23rd St. #2463 New York, NY 10011 # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: majordomo@bbs.thing.net and "info nettime-l" in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net