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<nettime> everything that sinks must converge digest [newmedia, desrenar
nettime's_thermodynamic_principle on Tue, 3 Jun 2003 18:43:55 +0200 (CEST)


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<nettime> everything that sinks must converge digest [newmedia, desrenards, cpaul, porculus, ctgr-pavu, bobig]


Newmedia {AT} aol.com
     Re: <nettime> Fascism in the USA?
Louise Desrenards <louise.desrenards {AT} free.fr>
     At last: Russian D Day announced
cpaul <inc {AT} fastmedia.net>
     death and consolidation for the 21st century
"porculus" <porculus {AT} wanadoo.fr>
     Re: <nettime> whatever Nettime is, is alive
"ctgr-pavu.com" <ctgr {AT} free.fr>
     Re: <nettime> whatever Nettime is, is alive
"bobig" <bobig {AT} bobig.com>
     Re: <nettime> whatever Nettime is, is alive


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From: Newmedia {AT} aol.com
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 08:15:47 EDT
Subject: Re: <nettime> Fascism in the USA?

Kermit:

Nice touch . . . throwing in Wyndham Lewis!!  HA!!

Social Psychology (Margaret Mead, Tavistock, etc.) in general and the 
Frankfurterite (i.e. Adorno/Horkheimer's) "The Authoritarian Personality" 
(1950) in particular are all devoted to the use of MEDIA to eliminate 
HUMAN choice -- thus eliminating *nasty* HUMANITY.

Of course . . . for its own GOOD!!

Fascism (of the mind) was re-tooled by the Bolsheviks and broadcast in 
PRIMETIME!!

This is the topic of "insider" Bert Gross' "Friendly Fascism" as well as 
Chris Simpon's "The Science of Coercion" and much of the work of Marshall 
McLuhan (who was, afterall, a "protege" of Lewis.)

"To that argument no answer was given, for there is no answer." 

Not in the 20th CENTURY there wasn't!!  It was all about the "The Art of 
Being Ruled" . . . by the MEDIA ENVIRONMENT.

Television CONSUMED the "Press, Wireless, Cinema" and gave us all 
"Christianity for the Non-Christians" -- along with tranquilizers, 
psychedelics and anti-depressants, not to mention autism, ADHD, diabetes 
and EXTREME everything.

Can anyone answer that argument now?  

How do you ARGUE with television?

Ah, but we are no longer in the 20th century.  This President doesn't watch 
television.  And, he's a Methodist, not a "fascist."

What *is* happening . . . NOW??  Or, to put it in terms Wyndham Lewis would 
understand, just which TIME is this anyway??

The idea that you could "oppose" what you observe by appealling to PROPAGANDA 
of the past (i.e. the mass-media induced reaction to the word "fascism") is 
LUDICROUS!!

Fascism (of the mind) *is* precisely this use of MASS-MEDIA and the 
subliminal deployment of its JINGLES and BRAND-NAMES.  

Modern "fascism" is (the form of) TELEVISION.

So, how *do* you ARGUE with television?  How do you *argue* with FASCISM?

With new media,

Mark Stahlman
New York City

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Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 10:55:39 +0200
Subject: At last: Russian D Day announced
From: Louise Desrenards <louise.desrenards {AT} free.fr>

(...)
>FASCISM *and* BOLSHEVISM are EUROPEAN ideologies and to imagine that either
>of them have *ever* been popular or politically effective in the USA is
>foolish, ignorant and worst of all -- A-HISTORIC!!

Do you mean that inevitably Chirac might suggest an opening Europe from
Dublin to Moscow? Could be a good idea to advance anything new here and
there.

>George W. Bush is a "born-again" Methodist (thanks to his wife Laura) --

I was sure that he could not be so bad as a man. Certainly a woman only
could be so predictive silly and productively integrist ‹ and specially good
on her own deals. 

>by any stretch of the term, a "fascist" -- and, if you wish to understand the
>present role of the USA in world history, you will have to investigate and
>understand what his "beliefs" actually mean.

The question is not about fascism but freedom on autonomy: only freedom far
from police weapons of the armies on World and far from material and virtual
control; next revolution will be on thought not on words. Play!

History Dust

(...)

PS:
The link on Geneva appears to be unavailable (from here).

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Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:56:23 +1000
From: cpaul <inc {AT} fastmedia.net>
Subject: death and consolidation for the 21st century

date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 11:37:16 -0500
from: Patrick Lichty <voyd {AT} voyd.com>
subject: The death of Nettime?

> Is cancelling Nettime-bold a good idea?  Time will tell.

As anybody who actually joined nettime-bold could tell
you, bold failed to receive a large number of posts that
otherwise successfully made it to nettime-l - for some 
insurmountable reason or another.

This rendered it rather useless as a 'bold' feed, and
wasted the time of moderators and subscribers alike.

So we never got to experience a nettime-bold; we have no
understanding of what a nettime-bold might have enabled,
hence no amount of time will allow us to conclude whether
or not it's cancellation is a good =or= evil idea.

So surely nettime-bold remains a useful concept to be
considered.

For example, why not the announce-digest .. an iCal feed?

Why not a semantic feeding frenzy?

Or is it simply preferable for nettime to remain strangled
by a majordomo, jammed by and pining for the 20th century.

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From: "porculus" <porculus {AT} wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: <nettime> whatever Nettime is, is alive
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 12:24:30 +0200

> she is a corporate business identity, disguised as a feminist cyber guru

as nice as a gaterbelt under a channel suit

> she has 'followers'

she must have a nice ass

> she is from new-zeland

an huge normandie wiz full of comfy haystack

> she is selling crappy software for an awfull lot of money

she must pay the bill at the restaurant

> she is insulting people who are in her way, she is insulting her clients
> as well

woow so she must insult at bed too

> she was trying to ruin the reputation of a whole community

hope she achieves or she would deceive

> she was exploiting the corporate brand: 'eastern european web artist'

az i wonder if 'ulla from humburg' & 'cheetah electric from vegaz' of crazy
horse saloon are not from liverpool

> she is kicked out of steim in amsterdam as well

as cheetah electric from vegaz, enuf  to said she does want to danse for GI
& fbi has fired her ass

> she is a myth, a soap bubble

bah as champagne

> she was used by others and later droppen when not needed anymore

gangbang is the name of the sound of sound barrier & only jealous on the
ground hear it

> some people on this list now her real name

natacha potemkine from ztalingrad ?

> > (it is _very funny_ for me that anna still believes that netochka
> > nezvanova is an east european artist - long live the cyborg!)

cause anna believe in some poetical words as 'i love the cracked cause they
let pass throught the light'
i i dont understand about what fucking light she is talking about, i just
understand she is alwez à poil at his keyboard
to each according ones mean & all would reach ze same paradize

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Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 13:22:52 +0200
Subject: Re: <nettime> whatever Nettime is, is alive
From: "ctgr-pavu.com" <ctgr {AT} free.fr>

old wounds never close ?
sorry for Xpost, but what is about syndicate must be read on syndicate 
too.
----------------------------------
my comment now :

is it a barking doll i'm hearing now ?
no.
not even a barking doll.

I hear the voice of an ex-cap'tain,
the one who left the ship when storm became too strong to face.

the flying dutchman is stil riding the oceans,
sir.

i mock you andreassito,
because you a-are
i mock you,
because i do...

--
OG - syndicate
-/ it's a long way to tiperary ... /-

Le lundi, 2 jun 2003, à 09:21 Europe/Paris, Andreas Broeckmann a écrit :

> folks,
>
> it is worth checking out the list that anna balint and others maintain to
> get an idea of what kind of list she has in mind when putting forward her
> criticism to nettime:
 <...>

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From: "bobig" <bobig {AT} bobig.com>
Subject: Re: <nettime> whatever Nettime is, is alive
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 15:23:08 +0200

----- Original Message -----
from: "Andreas Broeckmann" <abroeck {AT} transmediale.de>
to: <nettime-l {AT} bbs.thing.net>
sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 9:21 AM
subject: Re: <nettime> whatever Nettime is, is alive

> folks,
>
> it is worth checking out the list that anna balint and others maintain to
> get an idea of what kind of list she has in mind when putting forward her
> criticism to nettime:
>
> http://anart.no/sympa/arc/syndicate
>
> as always, i'll go with the moderated version.
>
> greetings, -a
>

==> je pense que c'est une triste attitude. préférer une version modérée c'est
se mettre des oeilleres. chacun peut trier ce qu'il veut...mais ça demande un
brin de jugeotte.

> ps: for the record: the referenced list is _not_ the former Syndicate list
> which the 'western korporat fascists' inke arns and myself ran, but one
> that was started when the old list was brought down by free minds like
> anna in 2001.
>
> (it is _very funny_ for me that anna still believes that netochka
> nezvanova is an east european artist - long live the cyborg!)

==> tout le monde sait que c'est une patineuse artistique.

                                                            bobig
                                              [ Bobig and the ouaibe ]
                                               http://www.bobig.com

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