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Re: <nettime> Request to Nettime to be part of DISTRIBUTED CREATIVITY on
yuri zero on Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:48:46 +0200 (CEST)


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Re: <nettime> Request to Nettime to be part of DISTRIBUTED CREATIVITY online forum with Eyebeam


----- Original Message -----
From: "Nato Thompson" <NThompson {AT} massmoca.org>
To: <nettime-l {AT} bbs.thing.net>
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 6:59 PM
Subject: RE: <nettime> Request to Nettime to be part of DISTRIBUTED
CREATIVITY online forum with Eyebeam



> I am fairly new to the net time list but this debate strikes me as
> interesting and not unusual. I work at a museum and sympathize with the
> constraints and difficulties that institutions have in presenting
> history as well as producing criticality. All too often, I find radicals
> (of which I do consider myself one) shooting themselves in the foot


ok, not to mention shooting others, blowing up buildings, and other radikal
type stuff

with

> unreasonable demands for representing themselves. Often times this leads
> to their non-inclusion which can be useful,


non-inclusion ain't exclusion, what's the use in being radikal if you're
gonna be included- not all that useful being a radikal anyway...


but often times is a result
> of exhaustion on the part of both parties.

let's not move too fast....


> I think Eyebeam is a good place if not somewhat inconsistent at times.
> They have supported some very interesting projects.

interesting for you, of course, but then again they may be pretty boring
stuff....


 (I think to them
> hosting the WTO protest workshops). I don't think their request for the
> participation of Net Time is all that bizarre. If a misunderstanding is
> in place, that shouldn't be a call for everyone to get on their high
> horse

how about a donkey, would that be ok?

and demand that people try to understand this wildly bizarre thing
> called a de-centered community (is it really so strange?). I think the
> danger is in trying to fit more 'centered' modes of presenting projects.
> That is to say, having individuals represent the group in a manner which
> offends those participating.


ok now, who's offended-- everyone speak up.......


Particularly, if people who contribute to
> the group feel they are somehow inexplicity supporting the careerist
> ambitions of their so-called representatives. This dynamic of resentment
> and confusion regarding representation has commonly plagued art
> collectives. The absolutely critical resistance to authorship finds a
> problem when confronted with those who need a spokesperson.
>
> My personal feeling is having representatives for such an expansive and
> loosely knit group like net time (I mean am I one myself for being a
> part for only 2 months?) is just a bad idea. It inevitably will set up a
> problematic hierarchy that has no ability to be checked, deliberated on,
> or worked out. Instead, Eyebeam should suggest something that provides a
> forum for everyone involved and highlights its extraordinarily disparate
> nature.
>
> I don't find it all that suprising that Eyebeam would like to
> incorporate the interesting work that happens on Net time. And I don't
> think simple attacks on the fact that Eyebeam has to raise money in
> order to survive is very helpful (in reference to the post by Brett
> Shand).

 But then again, I suppose the bigger question this issue begs
> is: is the net time crew capable of making a collective decision? My
> hopes would be 'no'.


I say "Yes"



But if that is the case, then I suppose asking net
> time any questions and hoping for a single answer is ridiculous too.
> Hmmm... Quite a quandry.

yes, quite ridiculous...

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