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Re: <nettime> Linux strikes back III
noci on Sat, 18 Oct 2003 13:49:29 +0200 (CEST)


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Re: <nettime> Linux strikes back III



Hardie wrote:
Why can't fsfer's think of law and its organisation in ways other than
proprietary/closed systems? Why do people who profess to be at the
cutting edge, pushing Paul Keating's proverbial envelope, feel the need
to hide behind old ways of thinking about law?


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because the rest of the world out there sadly does not function the same 
way as the open source community does? or is that just me overly 
simplifying things?

I'd like to know more about the "ways other than
proprietary/closed systems"-thinking. what's your idea? was that in your 
post or did I miss out on something?

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Geer wrote:
Stallman's position, as I understand it, is that he would have been
happy to use something other than copyright to protect the freedom of
free software, but that as far as he could tell, there was no other way.
   Maybe you could suggest one?



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I second that, where is the new spirit?
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Osinga wrote:
But there is nothing against Cisco
selling routers running Linux or Suse charging for CDs with Linux on it, 
as long
as people get access to the source code of Cisco routers & Suse 
distributions.


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Word! "making money from Linux distributions" [paraphrased; someone here 
said that..Myers!] is quite a wide expression. actually, you can get the 
whole Suse distribution right here:

ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/current/

what they charge you for is the box, the DVDs/CDs, the documentation, 
the support (if ye want it and pay for it).
Of course the GPLed software is the worm on the hook attracting 
dollar-stuffed fish, but buying a copy of Windows XP feels a bit 
different from buying a box copy of Suse.
picture both acts in your head an you'll know what I mean.
or not.. hurm... Confused!
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Elloi wrote:
...if you want to use so-called legal system and IP property laws you 
become just one of the parties that help maintain the whole thing, 
enriching lawyers and "leaders" along the way. OS is created by many and 
the cause/ideology exploited by a small fraction of loud ones.


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again, what's the alternative? let them pick you apart because you deny 
fighting against them with their own (legal) tools?
sounds heroic, but I don't believe these "parties" will stop lobbying 
against you simply because you've taken such a brave stance.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have any trust in the legal system/IP 
industry either. I'm simply asking for that ethereal alternative vision 
which is somehow absent but at the same time subliminally present in 
this discussion, somehow.

don't want to insult you either, but your message reminded me of 
utterings made by first-year-pseudo-leftist sociology students at the FU 
Berlin. ye know, in fact many of them have a bourgeois background that'd 
make you gasp for air if they'd ever admit on it.

I simply don't get your line of thinking-- am I dumb or what?
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Hardie wrote:
You see what I am trying to do is move or think about ways of moving the
legal language beyond property and contract at a pace somewhat closer to
the philosophical thinking or logics of the machine.

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hurm your message sounds interesting. what do you think could happen in 
praxis, though?
how can the OS community react against "threats" such as Cisco's actions 
on these new lines of thinking?

thinking about that Cisco fiasco:
they do nothing but Warez- making money from selling software whose 
license agreement they've violated.

             ..
            ....   ..
       . .. .... .... .....................................................
     .....................             - TEAM Linksys presents - 
        .
    ...................                                                   .
    ... .  ......       		 802.11g Wi-Fi Router
         . .......    .....................................................
          .... .. ...     SUPPLIER: TEAM Linksys PROGRAM TYPE: RouterOS 
    .
         ..... .......     CRACKER : TEAM CISCO   PROTECTION  : GPL
      .
        ..... .......      PACKAGER: TEAM CISCO   RELEASE TYPE: RETAIL     .
      ......  ......   .....................................................
    .......  .....  SYS    PLATFORM: ALL        	RELEASE DATE: 08-27-2003 .
  ........ ........  ..... LANGUAGE: ENGLISH     ARCHIVE NAME: SYSAME60.R*.
........     .............FORMATS: HARDWARE     RELEASE SIZE: Small Box
  ...... .....  ............................................................
                 .........
                   ......
     .......................................................................
     . .... RELEASE INFORMATION                                            .
     .......................................................................

Well Well finally this fine piece of Hardware has been released to the 
public...:

http://www.forbes.com/home/2003/10/14/cz_dl_1014linksys.html

"It lets you hook computers together on a wireless Wi-Fi network, 
employing a high-speed standard called 802.11g. Aimed at home users, the 
$129 device has been a smash hit, selling 400,000 units in the first 
quarter of this year alone."

For more product information please visit
       http://www.cisco.com

     .......................................................................
     . .... INSTALL NOTES                                                  .
     .......................................................................

       Unpack & Plug-In... RTFM you leech!

       Enjoy this fine release from TEAM Linksys :)

     .......................................................................
     . .... TEAM Linksys AGREEMENTS 
        .
     .......................................................................

       Attention:  Please  read  these  terms  carefully  before  using 
  our    release.  Using our release indicates that you have read and 
accepted  these  agreements.  If you do not agree to accept these terms, 
do not use  our  release  or  infomation from it. We may change the 
terms of this Agreement at any time.
YOU MAY USE OUR RELEASE FOR EVALUATION PRUPOSES ONLY.
WE WILL NOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR RELEASE.
IF YOU LIKE THIS SOFTWARE, YOU'RE STRONGLY  ADVISED  TO
CONFORM TO THE GPL.
THE OSS COMMUNITY NEEDS SUPPORT FOR QUALITY PRODUCTS.
YOU MAY NOT USE OUR RELEASE TO MAKE MONEY OR USE IT FOR COMMERCIAL PURPOSE.

     .......................................................................
     . .... TEAM Linksys NEWS 
        .
     .......................................................................

       Wanna Join? Getting In Touch With Us If...

       - You are familiar with commercial protections (GPL,Dongle,etc...)
       - You can do keygen for generic license agreements
       - You can rip of the OS community without attracting lots of 		 
       attention

     .......................................................................
     . .... TEAM Linksys GREETS 
        .
     .......................................................................

       TEAM Linksys send GREETS to:

       All groups who bring releases of high quality to the scene.

     .......................................................................
     . .... CONTACT INFORMATION                                            .
     .......................................................................

       EMAIL.......: [ Linksys {AT} hotmail.com ]
                                             ...         ...     ...
       Any request for technical support    ........   ........ ........
       or missing files will be ignored     ....... .................
       so dont waste your/our time!         ... ... ...   .. ... ...
                                            ... .......    ...... ....
     ...................................... ....... ...   .. .......  ..
        TEAM Linksys SINCE 2001             ........ ...    ...........   .
     ...................................... ...  ......   .. ...  ... ..
     .      LAST UPDATED ON 07/19/2002      ...  ........... ...  ...  .
     ......................................... .. ........ ... .. ..
                                           ..... ...     ...   ..... ...

                                    -.....-*(TEAM Linksys200)*..--


right i'm going back to lurk-mode now.. i'm not an expert in any of 
these issues (but you know that already from my post :-) but this 
discussion really struck a nerve with me, especially as this is only the 
tip of an underlying iceberg comprised of more topics than just OS vs IP 
etc.

this whole distributed creativity thing is new to me, y'know.. :P

greets,

maxd









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