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Re: <nettime> review of F9/11
porculus on Thu, 26 Aug 2004 16:54:55 +0200 (CEST)


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Re: <nettime> review of F9/11


> Like most people who have seen Michael Moore's latest film I am impressed
> with the amazing skill with which he is able to construct a kind of 
> vernacular argument out of fragments of film. Moore's unique film style is 
> better known in the USA than outside that country and is known there as the
> 'collage-essay'.

his vernacular 'character' itself find great echo, a kind of good big guy
who draw an acceptable pittoresque american, i say pittoresque in good way
as i dont know a frenchy josé bové whom he shake hand for instance..i dont
care exactly of josé bové's politic (there is so much to say) but about
pittoresque he is ok, as the small moustachu & loudmonth to camera..what is
interresting is the non global image of a big american guy who could sit
near a chenese for saying 'hey i am american, my panz is too big & my cap is
too small i have problem to not scratch my ball in public & you ? there is
the -very- political good job. a kind of john wayne postmodern one, local to
global that touch the
people

> Why does Moore insist that support for the war is not the same thing as
> opposing the troops themselves?

cause he is american. since ww1 for instance every european try too believe
that such butchery was made possible only by governement that tamed the
people for war..it was impossible for pacifist for instance people went to
battle with desir to fight..even in trying to white lie & building some
'humanitarian legend' as stanley kubrick did in his so good early moviez. 
but hey every european -know- that people did war -also- with some consent, 
& without consent there would be no war. there is the so flat secret

> Most people I know opposed the fact that Iraq was being invaded and had 
> a major issue with Australia's involvement as well.

there i would do er some petty calculation..all nation that knew
hindenburgesque bullshit 'total war' & conscription und autoritarian regime
were against iraki war..may be except those who has some historical reason to
join america, all other are professional army tradition. as england who could
have more than france his people against war but considering to be against the
war is antipatriotique..the passage where michale moore ask to congressman why
their sons dont go to war is quite 'funny' for those who come from nation who
remember conscription, i heard some comment about the recruitment passage too &
some jeer about napoleon's trick for instance all of this is rapidly say of
course, it's an impression

> Am I being too naively optimistic here?

of course not, but i really think soldier is seen as also paid for doing
payback to the nation, payback to all class from haliburton to poor american
according his negociated rent, to be a soldier is a job, a hard one did by
poor guy, well as to do job in wallmart...everyone go to wallmart

> So the liberal view that 'the troops are people like us, who like us were
> misled' is the least convincing argument in the film, and it forms a major
> structural weakness. It is the entire hierarchical nature of the corrupt
> oil machine which is at fault and which by wearing the trappings of nation 
> as its cloak, has led Australia, Britain and USA into the abyss along with 
> a handful of other small countries which Moore points out in the film 
> (though strangely not including Australia).

the only moral of war is to win & to win a war is a long drawn out job, i
mean achieving payback & i am sure many (nearly all?) american people belive
it's possible till, i am not a good military, perhaps it's quite possible


>  National pride and a sense of national service need to come into question 
> as well during war, arguably more than at any other time as Rosa Luxemburg
> pointed out back during WWII, but Moore wants us to identify with those 
> who 'love their country but not their government'.

ja..dont love politican & lawyer as in moviez but soldier & cops & forensic
could be an ordinary american 'real' job, a one that need to be done, the
only available..remember what jw bush said to moore 'find a real job'

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