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<nettime> nofundedigest [guderian, miller, rosler]
magister_ludi_retetemporum on Sat, 12 Mar 2005 16:04:53 +0100 (CET)

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<nettime> nofundedigest [guderian, miller, rosler]

Re: <nettime> fundigested [rosler, jaeger]
     Carl Guderian <blacque_jacques {AT} yahoo.com>
     "E. Miller" <subscriptionbox {AT} squishymedia.com>
     martha rosler <navva {AT} earthlink.net>

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Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 12:01:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Carl Guderian <blacque_jacques {AT} yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: <nettime> fundigested [rosler, jaeger]

--- nettime's_BMOC <nettime {AT} bbs.thing.net> wrote:

> Re: <nettime> fundigest [rosler, hopkins]
>      martha rosler <navva {AT} earthlink.net>
> De/fund/ed digest
>      Timothy Jaeger - THING <timjaeger {AT} thing.net>

> Thirdly, I don't see this 'digital boom' that others have mentioned,
> nor do I see the jobs that it is preparing us for (Maya Texutre
> modeling?  .ASP/XML/CSS/Perl Programmer? I suppose these are out there
> but most rely on skills taught at trade schools, DeVRY, or
> self-taught..) I think Trebor Scholz has written about this. In fact,
> it seems that budget cuts are happening across the board. If the
> computing/arts department at UCSD can get additional funding that
> provides more research opportunities for graduate students, then me
> and my friends/fellow graduate students will be happy campers. ;)
> Cheers,
> Tim

How about cutting-edge sciences represented in older
media (sorta the opposite of new media's content
initally being older media)? As coincidence would have
it, I saw this email right after posting some work
(not mine) to my girlfriend's gallery website. It's
for an upcoming exhibition of paintings and works on
paper whose subject is photomicrographs of brain
cells, stem cells, anthrax bacilli and the AIDS virus.
And the odd sperm. The title translates, more or less,
as "Today's hot news is tomorrow's fishwrap"


Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 

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Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:23:21 -0800
Subject: Re: <nettime> fundigested [rosler, jaeger]
From: "E. Miller" <subscriptionbox {AT} squishymedia.com>

On 3/11/05 10:03 AM, "nettime's_BMOC" <nettime {AT} bbs.thing.net> wrote:

> yes, and when all is said and done, I still need to know WHOM to
> approach to obtain funding for, say, German language teaching in...
> Alabama?  (Now that we have all proved our rhetorical capabilities...
> could someone take me out of my misery and explain the pathway to the
> successful completion of that particular maneuver?)

Well, just for the sake of continuing the thread:  Here's the NSA
expressing a need for language work, German included.

Now if I were a German professor trying to get some money out of the NSA,
and if I were a 'true patriot' rather than a God-less commie liberal, I'd
hook up with a CS professor with experience in data mining, then pitch the
NSA with a project oriented towards monitoring electronic communications in,
say, German-speaking Arab expat communities and extracting metadata patterns
for analysis and threat assessment.  Point out that the 9/11 hijackers spent
time in Hamburg.

Or how about some cash from George Soros?

Or are there many German-speaking former colonial holdings in the Third
World?  Apply for a grant establishing an exchange program.

Or I'd learn Urdu.

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Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 21:59:53 -0500
From: martha rosler <navva {AT} earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: <nettime> fundigested [rosler, jaeger]

>Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 02:15:36 -0800
>Subject: De/fund/ed digest
>From: Timothy Jaeger - THING <timjaeger {AT} thing.net>
>Coco, et al..

>>It is also true that some art programs have succeeded in attracting
>>corporate monies by promising to do R&D in gaming for the industry -
>>UCSD recently got $300,000 for this kind of development.
>I'm currently a grad student in visual art at UCSD and know about these
>statistics, but don't see how this is such a bad thing (and I don't think
>you are saying it is....) For one thing, it encourages artistic research
>into gaming-as-art, not just R & D for the 'industry'.  If it weren't for
>faculty and others making connections to outside monies, we, as graduate
>students, wouldn't have as many opportunities to exhibit work. How is this
>different than most other 'art world' methods of finding sponsors and
>funding?  Beats me.

In two ways. Qualitatively, the degree of separation between the 
industry ad the grad students' "exhibitions" is far less than between 
previous corporate funders and the art exhibitions that ensue.
  the latter are not, of course made fully on the corporate sponsor's 
dime. not that coprorate funding for art has been a glorious 

Second, Tim, you don't seem to see a distinction between educational
institutions and goals and exhibition opportunities, san airlessness
which many people including Coco and myself have decried as a trend in
graduate art education. By fully instrumentalizing your education, it
seems, you are able to erase any qualms you might have had over the
direct relationship between corporate aims and your own aims--both can
be described as "gaming," after all!

In the 60s and 70s, asked about his funding by DoD, linguistic professor
Noam Chomsky suggested , I think, that the army would be hard pressed to
utilize his basic research (prospective uses: for AI). Under the
National Defense Education Act (if that was the name), a lot of BASIC
RESEARCH, foundational research, in science was government--not
corporate--funded, in the hope and expectation of some technological
benefit. Times have changed. Now, wiht little government funding,
corporate funders have gotten bolder in their expectations of direct
benefit, but before computer-industry funding, few would have talked as
you do, and few schools would have allowed the suggestion that they
directly feed the goals of an industry to go unchallenged.

>Secondly, in pairing with the sciences in such a brutally obvious way, it
>shows that art has much to gain from such pairings.  Does science have much
>to gain from the art world (in other words, are scientists looking for the
>same grants that artists are?) Of course not. It's actually a win-lose
>situation in art's favor (consider the scientists who lose funding to an
>art/science collaboration).

This doesn't make a lot of sense to me. There is no zero sum pie in 
which artists gain at scientists' expense. Art's value is as 
decoration, as ideological cover, and as R&D. Individual scientists 
may not gain more than inspiration, rather than dollars, but 
corporations, shareholders, and perhaps, oh, who knows--the 

>If the computing/arts department at UCSD can get additional funding
>that provides more research opportunities for graduate students, then
>me and my friends/fellow graduate students will be happy campers. ;)

on a personal note, I am a graduate of the UCSD visual arts
department--where my first exposure to programming was in a class taught
by the late Jef Raskin-- and I am so sorry to see it going in the
direction that your post seems to suggest.

martha rosler

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