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<nettime> wo/men and other metaphors digests [vogelsang, sawad, 0f0003,
nettime's_driving_force on Sat, 3 Mar 2007 05:00:52 +0100 (CET)


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<nettime> wo/men and other metaphors digests [vogelsang, sawad, 0f0003, porculus]


Axel <axelvogelsang {AT} googlemail.com>
     Re: <nettime> Car Metaphors
Sawad <sawad {AT} utensil.net>
     Re: <nettime> Car Metaphors
n2o {AT} ggttctttat.com (0f0003 | maschinenkunst)
     Re: <nettime> Men metaphors
"porculus" <porculus {AT} wanadoo.fr>
     Re: <nettime> Women metaphors


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Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 15:48:35 +0000
Subject: Re: <nettime> Car Metaphors
From: Axel <axelvogelsang {AT} googlemail.com>

Hi Olia,

As much as I love your work I disagree with a lot of what you are saying here.
First of all I don't think that analogies are evil. Metaphorical transfers -
understanding one things in the terms of another - are a fundamental part of
human thinking and conceptualizing, be it through metaphor, metonymy or
analogy. It has nothing to do with being lazy. Humans can only understand new
things on the basis of their earlier experience. Our whole language is based on
metaphor. To give an example: When I say "our whole language is based on
metaphor" I am using the analogy of language being an object that is physically
placed on another physical object called metaphpr. Lakoff and Johnson have to
say quite a lot about how language and thinking are metaphorical constructs
(See: "Metaphors we live by" and "Women, Fire and Dangerous Things"). You've
actually delivered the best example yourself when you quote McLuhan: "We look
at the present through a rear-view mirror" - that is actually a car metaphor.

Metaphoric comparison has nothing to do with putting equals between the two
compared domains.  Currently as we do not really know what computers do to us
we have to refer to it with words and concepts that are familiar to us. It is
only with hindsight that we will understand the developments better and find a
language for it. Having said that, my experience is actually mostly contrary to
yours. I don't remember having come across many car metaphors for explaining
the computer (maybe the information highway). I much more feel that the
predominant means of production seem to deliver the metaphors for everything
else. We now talk about humans and how their brains work in computer metaphors
while 30, 40 years ago a lot of metaphors for daily life came from
industrialisation. In German for example we say "wie am Fliessband" (like at
the conveyer belt) expressing that something runs smoothly or "Dampf ablassen"
(letting off steam), "alle Hebel in Bewegung setzen" (to pull out all the
stops) etc... At least as much as we use metaphors and analogies to explain the
computer, the computer has itself developed a whole new conceptual domain on
the basis of which we try to understand other domains.

best wishes,
Axel Vogelsang

> http://www.contemporary-home-computing.org/car-metaphors/
> 
> I teach New Media at a design school. Its a great job. The only thing
> that poisons my professional life are numerous analogies I read every
> day in articles on digital culture and computer related topics.
 <...>

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From: Sawad <sawad {AT} utensil.net>
Subject: Re: <nettime> Car Metaphors
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 16:24:04 -0500

In an environment profuse with differences and characterized by change, we
value similarities; in one dominated by similarities and homogeneity, we seek
differences.

sawad

On Feb 28, 2007, at 8:23 AM, olia lialina wrote:

> What=92s wrong with car metaphors and analogies in general?
 <...>

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Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 02:24:56 -0600
From: n2o {AT} ggttctttat.com (0f0003 | maschinenkunst)
Subject:  Re: <nettime> Men metaphors

>Subject:   Re: <nettime> Women metaphors
>From:   "Keith Sanborn" <mrzero {AT} panix.com>

>I guess this is supposed to be funny?
>
>Not.

You wouldnt know funny nor serious if it was you
you unconscious occident fucking worm  -- just kidding

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From: "porculus" <porculus {AT} wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: <nettime> Women metaphors
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 11:12:45 +0100

> They were created by men and usually lead 2 women +!

wouah + that sound as a cucul lelouche's moviez with large panz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DlyabObFKp0s

> To compare computers with cars in particular is wrong
> because cars, as women, have an intuitive interface,

next time i fondle a guy & push here und pull there i will say 'hey man you
wonder why i always think you deserve a good spanking  it's cause you havent
an intuitive interface' ..you talk as if you love it btw..i mean a spanking
of course

> as more than transportation\prostitution, which I suspect is the case with
> 99% of nettime croutons.

tada ! your there bis repetitated your brulant & fired desire. have you recieve
private proposition actually? for my part it's not my da who gave me spank
when kids but mature girlz who..er manhandled my interface..er hey i suspect
nettime is 49% of mature milf !

> Secondly, it is indeed a fact that before a 'something' becomes
> 'democratized' \ ie. whored + prostituted \ ie. made affordable \
> ie. made ubiquitous \ ie. made meaningless, it does enjoy a period
> of time when the relationship of those engaged with it
> is multifaceted and transcendental.

and now it sound right as a benito'z blah about girlyzing democrassy..permit
i said also stalinian 'lubric adder' for stigmatizing demogratos interface
grrr would give me an hard on too.well adding some + et / give some futurist
pendentif trinket to your female jalopy intuitve things there & there you
know..i love les rideaux cramoisis and the completly undrinkable cocktail as
champagne +  blackberry double creme, except pourred in the cleft of a buttock
of course, it's what is called miracle of civilisation

> Annalogies are the highest form of pattern recognition,

you'r on ! it's a deal..i love one stick a brandied cherry befor..+ bright
smarting from

> 'New' (media) is an apt metaphor.

voil=E0 ! i understand the same things as you in the super indrinkable olia
lialina's post, except with brandied cherry of course, i.e.  it's time to
reopen the maisons in all europe, i mean les bordels, our democratie is crouton
+ milf mature after all, merde..for my part i am quite ok to go by bycicle &
not with my rapeseed oil wv..you know when i go out my car this fucking oil
perfume of deep fat frying my fake china made versace suit, not a
joke..imagine the horror with a blackberry smell over there, a crouton.. i
agree with olia: by bycicle !

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