brian carroll on Tue, 18 Sep 2007 22:26:32 +0200 (CEST) |
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<nettime> re: Cybernetics and the Control Society |
Brian Holmes wrote: > But nonetheless, from around, well, let's just say, 1978 onwards, the > whole interdisciplinary complex of ideas that had been called cybernetics > fell into a kind of entropic disarray, and gradually retreated from the > world stage of ideas to the point where, bizarrely, strangely, > inexplicably, by 1994 when the seeds that all those people had planted > suddenly blossomed into the enormous fin-de-siecle phenomenon of the > World Wide Web, nobody had a thing to say about cybernetics anymore. > Net.art and net everything-else developed basically without that > reference (although please, please tell me there were exceptions); from a non-'net.art' historical perspective, some of the earliest resources from the days of the Lynx browser text-based internet and Mosaic browser's image-based 'world-wide-web' were related to systems theory and cybernetics, such as the Principia Cybernetica (c.1993) and issues related to hypothetical systems engineered utopianism of 'new civilizations', etc. (seemingly born out of the high-tech Californian counterculture). it was "resources" such as these that gave the early internet its value, or potential for social change or collaboration, which migrated somewhat into mailing-list cultures prior to the online property-boom in website developments. [a way of considering it would be from an organizational viewpoint, in which systematic 'ideas' such as cybernetics could be modeled via hypertext, in a website as such, yet today so much is pursued via blogs as a method instead, and how may this influence the modeling/sharing of ideas, in terms of systematic knowledge and getting down to the logic of what is going on, versus the journalistic viewpoint. it would seem that the 'wiki' would potentially be more attuned to this error-correction modeling than a blog, for instance. and so, what if standards of communication are occurring in blogs, and thus this cybernetic aspect seems to disappear, including refining via editing (via peer-review) and establishing models of ideas, versus storytelling, etc. it would seem to be the difference between establishing a 'circuit' of an event, versus a representation of this circuitry from a given, somewhat arbitrary perspective. no less real, possibly, yet always 'relativisitic' to modeling a larger whole. cybernetics would seem to underly all communications at the level of logic. to 'argue' with a cybernetic machine is seemingly to interact at a level of beliefs, in which the action and movement of this machinery will automatically parse the most accurate logical approach, given its parameters. this is not inherently against humanity. yet it is not inherently 'true' either, given the boundaries established (that is, they could be inaccurate, flawed, corrected). humans who then seek to interact with machineries would seem to only have a chance to influence this machinery for the 'greater truth' by basing their ideas in the clarity of logical accounting, basing beliefs on this foundation, and knowing what this foundation is, in terms of their reasoning. because - this is what the cyber- netic machinery does anyway, how it will interpret 'beliefs' and how communication unfolds. accurately or with error. the functional communication in 'beliefs' is the main issue, and this would seem to work against human communication with machinery, in requiring a human subjectivity to this POV, when the coldness and hardness of logic may appear to be inadequate to emotional conditions and how it is reasoned. 'logic' in itself is capable of modeling these dynamics, if they are effectively modeled and based in 'truth'. and this could and can be accommodated by a machinery. it would need to be presented as such, in clear terms. emotions are not able to 'carry' this truth, into machinery. it becomes logic. weighted to given modeling, or so it would seem the case. the very many insights that people have become bounded by communications, methods of conveying ideas between peoples, versus the human-machine threshold or boundary in which the cybernetic organism appears to be constituted and to function, automatically, via programmed behaviors. it would seem that 'truth' is something such machinery must acknowledge, due to this logical accounting, and if it does not it risks its own self-defeat, in which its ability to function breaks- down via the inaccuracies of modeling, confined limits, etc. it would seem to be an issue of humans, machinery, and truth, in terms of logical reasoning, versus trying to keep a realm of human communications outside of this automated machinery and 'its truth' -- at some level it is the same truth, and human perspectives can potentially model it more effectively than it has been, by previous generations. the 'discourse' then would seem to be with a machinery if not a cybernetic organism, in which this does not necessarily indicate it is against humanity, simply by existing. it would seem to involve how it is constituted, in what terms, how it is functioning or operating, which may be anti-human in many ways. yet which can be modified/changed via this logical accounting of truth, via logical reasoning, etc. yet if this 'reason' is not grounded in empirical truth and that is removed of inaccuracies and extraneous beliefs, this would seem to be the noise which can have vast repercussions on others, via relativistic viewpoints which retain inaccuracies and then model a situation, which ultimately oppresses others who are not the given seer, due to issues of perspective, limits, etc. these types of issues can only be resolved by moving into logic and modeling ideas in terms of logic and ideas as circuitry, in which this communication is neutralized of inherent inaccuracy potentially due to the need to 'say' in customized ways, what is. in other words, it could be the serial, non-looping aspect of the text which is functioning against this truth, via shared relations which jump around the main issues, which are this cybernetic modeling and engaging this machinery in terms of ideas/beliefs that are accurately, effectively, and expertly grounded in relation to the conditions that exist, for the 'other' (machinic) perspective. and that it could be an issue of governance, between humans and this machinery, reliant upon the integrity of reasoning, for rule of law and rights and freedoms of action/speech, yet within a logical context, to engage this situation, which the future relies. so it would seem an issue of coming to terms with this situation. and how to move into this more peer-based logical evaluation in which 'communication' can become collaborative at the level of the text, of the ideas modeled in signs, in various types of circuits which could range from a point, to a line (between two concepts), to a plane, to a volumetric 'idea' (moving into the 'spheric, say). it would seem the wiki-approach has a lot to offer, yet the social relations between people and models of communication do not seem to hold the same 'open' collaborative spirit of earlier days, if not due to issues of identity, privacy, surveillance, security, and spam. yet, what if every 'group' or culture were able to begin to write or inscribe their shared knowledge, via this cybernetic-like modeling, of logic-based accounting, in which a process could be established which grounds reasoning, akin to a 'scientific' method yet for online communications in terms of developing collaborative or collective knowledge resources, in which the goal is to get the ideas into a single framework, and work-through 'difference', etc. the tools would appear to be here. the customization issues also appear possible to resolve, given technical skills of programmers and hackers and others, to modify software to advance is partial functionality into a more robust modeling, potentially. what seems to be the missing piece is the people who think and reason and who are ready and willing to collaborate on ideas, to take the risk of sharing ideas, albeit imperfect in absolute terms, yet in order to establish a contingent modeling of [events], wherein 'many' can begin to forge this more singular perspective, including debate it, its points, premises, hypotheses, theories, statements, claims, propositions, and so on. and that maybe that is why 'lists' exist, to some extent, or blog-comments which could feed into lists, or wikis, and that maybe the issue of independent web development and blogging establishes a barrier to some of this, if only in terms of an existing status quo of rote social-technological functioning, yet which could be malleable, could be adapted or changed, if 'the ideas' took the leap into this grounded condition or realm. i myself have kind of given up on the whole idea, due to futility of trying to 'reason' such a perspective which becomes self- evident via the alienation that logical reasoning now provides. it turns logical reasoning into the antithesis of popular 'reason', as as belief system of 'communications', including of exchange. yet how much of this is actually impacting cybernetic machinery, enough to challenge it or change its fundamental structuring? it would seem possible that if ideas were grounded, there would be a possibility that ideas could effect this automated functioning, it is simply an issue of beginning to mediate this ('new') condition. brian c. # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # 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