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<nettime> Zizek on feeding the trolls digest [x6: Desrenards, Recktwenwa
nettime's_digestive_system on Mon, 29 Jun 2009 01:12:37 +0200 (CEST)


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<nettime> Zizek on feeding the trolls digest [x6: Desrenards, Recktwenwald, O'Doherty (2), van Weelden, Schmidt]


Re: <nettime> Zizek on Iran
     Louise Desrenards <louise.desrenards {AT} free.fr>
Re: <nettime> Zizek on Iran (kitsch)
     Heiko Recktenwald <heikorecktenwald {AT} googlemail.com>
     Peter O'Doherty <mail {AT} peterodoherty.net>
Re: <nettime> Zizek on The Netherlands (Matze Schmidt)
     Willem van Weelden <w.v.weelden {AT} chello.nl>
Re[2]: <nettime> Zizek on The Netherlands (Matze Schmidt)
     Matze Schmidt <matze.schmidt {AT} n0name.de>
Re: <nettime> Zizek on The Netherlands (Matze Schmidt)
     Peter O'Doherty <mail {AT} peterodoherty.net>

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Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:39:16 +0200
Subject: Re: <nettime> Zizek on Iran
From: Louise Desrenards <louise.desrenards {AT} free.fr>

Absolutely relevant at my view
Thank You fot this text

2009/6/25 geert lovink <geert {AT} desk.nl>

> (fwd. from lbo-talk. /geert)
>
> Here's an article by Zizek that was turned down by the NY Times and is
> now making the rounds:
>
> WILL THE CAT ABOVE THE PRECIPICE FALL DOWN?
>
> Slavoj Zizek
>
> When an authoritarian regime approaches its final crisis, its  dissolution
 <...>

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Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 16:00:41 +0200
From: Heiko Recktenwald <heikorecktenwald {AT} googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: <nettime> Zizek on Iran (kitsch)

Peter O'Doherty schrieb:

> Wow. What a load of nonsense! Perhaps Matze Schmidt should do some fact
> checking before subjecting us to this ridiculous trope on Zizek's real
> article.
>
> http://itself.wordpress.com/2009/06/24/will-the-cat-above-the-precipice-fall-down/

I think it was published in the FAZ. But it does not convince me completely.

Lets face it: Mousavi had TWO agendas. One agenda was: "more freedom, 
more rule of law, a bigger role for women in society" etc. This is the 
agenda that counts today.

Allthough it is not made clear by Mousavi and supporters. Like it or 
not, Mousavi has no clear message. People in Iran dont know what they 
are fighting for, except their right to express their feelings. A 
feeling is not yet any political message. And twitter is no tool for 
things like that. The "Sea of Green" needs some discussion, reflection 
of things that are important and reachable, better rule of law etc, and 
things that are not, off the street. This is the direction into which 
things will develop and this is a good sign.
 
The other agenda was "the image of Iran in the world is bad, lets 
improve it" sotosay an answer to Obama who said similar things on the 
U.S. of Bush. This was an insult to all "proud Iranians", freedom loving 
or not.

Zizek believes that the elections were basically "rigged".

His main argument is that the high participation is a prove of 
"protest". According to Zizek "protest" is the only possible 
explanation. But he fails to admit that we dont know what the voters 
were protesting against. They could as well have protested against 
Mousavi. Imagine Mullahs telling people that Mousavi is a danger and 
they went en masse into the election offices to prevent him from winning. 

The role of Neda is typical for those "Green Policies". Was she a 
martyr? She was shot dead, yes, but it is not shure that she was 
fighting for anything. Without such a fight no martyr according to 
Christian tradition, allthough Muslim martyrdom may be different. See 
Gaza etc.

Nadas fiance said, according to an interview, that she was just curious. 
Then her dead would be just something like an accident, at least in 
Christian tradition, no martyrdom.

Politics cannot be based on kitsch. That Neda or some people in Gaza 
were no martyrs does not change anything of the fact that they are dead. 
That they are dead is terrible enough, the IDF, the Basiji, allways the 
same. We dont have to make the things bigger. Less is more!

The Wall Street Journal had an overview over the elements of the Islamic 
constitution of Iran. It is surprising what people are allowed to vote 
for. And as we know now not all Mullahs are the same.

H.

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Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 12:05:20 +0200
From: Peter O'Doherty <mail {AT} peterodoherty.net>
Subject: Re: <nettime> Zizek on Iran (kitsch)

Oh, I quite agree. Zizek's article is definitely flawed but my criticism 
was more the transplantation of the analysis into a Dutch context, 
whether humorously intended or not.
Peter

Heiko Recktenwald wrote:

> Peter O'Doherty schrieb:
>> Wow. What a load of nonsense! Perhaps Matze Schmidt should do some fact
>> checking before subjecting us to this ridiculous trope on Zizek's 
>> real article.
>>
>> http://itself.wordpress.com/2009/06/24/will-the-cat-above-the-precipice-fall-down/ 
>>   
> I think it was published in the FAZ. But it does not convince me 
> completely.
 <...>

-- 
/*------------------
Peter O'Doherty -> peterodoherty.net
------------------*/

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From: Willem van Weelden <w.v.weelden {AT} chello.nl>
Subject: Re: <nettime> Zizek on The Netherlands (Matze Schmidt)
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 02:26:21 +0200

Maybe I do not get your sense of humour, but certainly you did not  
get the one you are reacting on...
gr
w.
Willem van Weelden
w.v.weelden {AT} chello.nl
Willem.vanWeelden {AT} sintlukas.be

Op 27-jun-2009, om 12:30 heeft Peter O'Doherty het volgende geschreven:

> Wow. What a load of nonsense! Perhaps Matze Schmidt should do some  fact
> checking before subjecting us to this ridiculous trope on Zizek's  real
> article.
>
> http://itself.wordpress.com/2009/06/24/will-the-cat-above-the-
> precipice-fall-down/
 <...>

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Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 13:31:23 +0200
From: Matze Schmidt <matze.schmidt {AT} n0name.de>
Subject: Re[2]: <nettime> Zizek on The Netherlands (Matze Schmidt)

Saturday, June 27, 2009, 12:30:35 PM, you wrote:

> Wow. What a load of nonsense!

Haha, yes. Badly good for the always super-controlled never-sampling
nettime.

> Wilders may be many things, most of which repulsive, but he is hardly a
> Christian-Fascist populist.

Maybe, maybe not, but he is the "Dutch freedom fighter". But maybe my
writing was more bad than expected as I was turned on by the name
Geert, as Geert Lovink, than by Wilder's Christian-Fascist populist
face.

> Perhaps Matze Schmidt should do some fact checking

And yeah, actually it was not about fact checking at all but it was
Zizek-Talk Resampling (not checking!). That's what you don't like, and
funny enough, I don't like it either.

best

M

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Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:55:22 +0200
From: Peter O'Doherty <mail {AT} peterodoherty.net>
Subject: Re: <nettime> Zizek on The Netherlands (Matze Schmidt)

> And yeah, actually it was not about fact checking at all but it was
> Zizek-Talk Resampling (not checking!). That's what you don't like, and
> funny enough, I don't like it either.

Touché. I guess my sense of humor deserted me momentarily. Or perhaps I 
just need to get to used to your humor.
Regards,
Peter

-- 
/*------------------
Peter O'Doherty -> peterodoherty.net
------------------*/

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