www.nettime.org
Nettime mailing list archives

Re: <nettime> NATO disrupting the course of justice in Libya and Interna
Tjebbe van Tijen on Mon, 23 May 2011 16:35:23 +0200 (CEST)


[Date Prev] [Date Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]

Re: <nettime> NATO disrupting the course of justice in Libya and International Criminal Court not reacting


dear Heiko Recktenewald

So do you really try to say that the whole institution of the International Criminal Court should be situated outside the scope of 'international relations'? 

To me that does not make sense. Many attempts at institutionalising 'justice' are based on international agreements/laws like conventions against Genocide, Racism, Discrimination and so on. Criminal law executed on an international scale is meant to enforce such covenants that form the basis of international relations.

Maybe I better try to read what you intend to say, than to react on what you actually wrote. 

Many have noted that the combined framework of the UN Security Council and the International Criminal Court have an unwanted side effect that a dictator, war lord or other baddies are now completely cornered and left no space to real & deal, to flee with some minimal honour, to go in exile and so on. The lack of such a 'maneuvering' space tends to extend a situation of violence instead of diminishing it. 

You wrote: "The unwillingness of the "rebels" to talk with him that I would call a  barbaric uncivilised behaviour, NATO does support this..." and here I fully agree with you we need 'compromise' instead of heroic stands, and who knows what the 'rebels' that have now been upgraded to a governmental ally of the Allied Forces carry deep in their bosom, one should be ready for the worst. Still diplomatic compromise tends to save more lives than heroic fighting. If a delegation of Venezuelan president Chavez, the Turkish premier Erdogan and the Russian omnipotent Putin could make a dirty deal with Gaddafi that could be much more effective than another round of bombs and missiles by NATO.... both on the hsort and long term.

Last... I do not understand your remark: "...what does it have to do with art? It is about words and not images, images suck badly, you cannot make anything "visible" in Libya that is not political kitsch." As I did not use the word art in my small post. I can not see why images would "suck badly" and words would not do so. I tend to use images often as headers that express something better than mere words.  An extensive example of this method can be viewed and read at openDemocracy.net http://www.opendemocracy.net/tjebbe-van-tijen/nato’s-collateral-tyrannicide

==========
On 21 May 2011, at 18:54, Heiko Recktenwald wrote:

I dont think that international relations should be mixed with criminal law if we want something like justice, real rules that govern all of the times in all cases - and is there anybody who can give international pardons, btw? - and I still have some sort of sympathy for the "devil", but this is plain nonsense and I am surprised to read it:


Am 20.05.2011 06:27, schrieb Tjebbe van Tijen:
> When a court orders an alleged killer to be arrested and it notices that someone else tries repeatedly to kill ‘their killer’…. it would issue also an arrest warrant for the murderer ‘in spe’ of the indicted.

It depends on the circumstances.


There are more important things to complain. The unwillingness of the "rebels" to talk with him that I would call a  barbaric uncivilised behaviour, NATO does support this, and the definition of a "civilian" anyway. There is no clear message what Gaddafi should do, the most basic necessity for any rule of law, except to go which is not the content of the UNSC Res..  And a prolonged civil war (that would be perfectly ok unter the Geneva Conventions) is very expensiv


Btw, what does it have to do with art? It is about words and not images, images suck badly, you cannot make anything "visible" in Libya that is not political kitsch.

H.

Tjebbe van Tijen
Imaginary Museum Projects
Dramatizing Historical Information
http://imaginarymuseum.org
web-blog: The Limping Messenger
http://limpingmessenger.wordpress.com/


#  distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
#  <nettime>  is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
#  more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
#  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime {AT} kein.org