John Hopkins on Wed, 23 Jan 2013 10:47:28 +0100 (CET) |
[Date Prev] [Date Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]
Re: <nettime> living systems theory [2x] |
----- Forwarded message from John Hopkins <jhopkins@neoscenes.net> ----- From: John Hopkins <jhopkins@neoscenes.net> Reply-To: jhopkins@neoscenes.net Subject: Re: <nettime> living systems theory Organization: neoscenes Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 09:20:03 -0700 To: list nettime <nettime-l@kein.org> On 1/22/13 07:18, chris mann wrote: >please, once again, computers process data. not information. they have no >idea about what theyre doing or why, so it can only be data. computers have >no motivation, no conspiracy, no horizon. therefore no possibility of >dealing with information. As an organized and indivisible expression of a wholistic and continuous living system (ours!), through their operation, or even merely their maintained presence, they are increasing local entropy, and in that sense they are carrying information into the future as long as they are more organized than their surroundings. We are not separate from the wider system that we are immersed within. If we were, why worry about systemic degradations of the ecosystem...? Why worry about consuming energy? JH -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dr. John Hopkins, BSc, MFA, PhD Watching the Tao rather than watching the Dow! http://neoscenes.net/ http://tech-no-mad.net/blog/ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ----- End forwarded message ----- ----- Forwarded message from John Hopkins <jhopkins@neoscenes.net> ----- From: John Hopkins <jhopkins@neoscenes.net> Reply-To: jhopkins@neoscenes.net Subject: Re: <nettime> living systems theory Organization: neoscenes Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 09:30:46 -0700 To: list nettime <nettime-l@kein.org> On 1/22/13 07:38, chris mann wrote: >if you make no distinction between information and data, no further >distinctions are possible Hi Chris ~ Given that I actually did not conflate the two, can you expand on this? A machine (digital or otherwise) is not a closed system, it is an open system, and so that its very structure, provenance, existence, persistence carries information (as order). Maybe you are confusing the abstracted protocols that form the energy that pass through the machine for the materialized *thing* itself (which recursively is 'merely' an expression of other protocols and their actualized potential for directing energies in a specific way). JH -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dr. John Hopkins, BSc, MFA, PhD Watching the Tao rather than watching the Dow! http://neoscenes.net/ http://tech-no-mad.net/blog/ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ----- End forwarded message -----i # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@kein.org