Jaime Magiera via Nettime-tmp on Thu, 15 Jun 2023 00:43:29 +0200 (CEST) |
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Re: <nettime> Direction of Travel - technical |
Yes, apparently it hit a nerve for you. The point was that a container would need to be hosted, one option would be on a Kubernetes cluster service. Otherwise, it’s just running on someone’s VM. There are many non-commercial options. Containerization and Kubernetes are my day job. Likewise, I managed mailman mailing lists for several decades. Portability is a key technical hurdle as the list hosting changes over time. I don’t think anyone is prioritizing technical over social. The technological issue is clear and being discussed as a separate issue. > On Jun 14, 2023, at 6:06 PM, paul van der walt via Nettime-tmp <nettime-tmp@mail.ljudmila.org> wrote: > > Hey Jaime, Christian, > > On 2023-06-14 at 11:39 -04, quoth Jaime Magiera via Nettime-tmp <nettime-tmp@mail.ljudmila.org>: >> I’ve been quietly following this discussion, but will pipe in on this aspect: Running from a >> container would be a wise solution. The archives can be stored on a mount and backed up >> elsewhere. I’m happy to provide my expertise in the area of containerization (and Kubernetes if so >> desired) to help if this is the way folks decide to go. > > I appreciate folks are just brainstorming, but i feel i should add my 2c too. It is my literal day job to support a fairly sizeable e-commerce website (millions to billions of SKUs, millions of requests per minute) with AWS infrastructure, and we use a lot of Kubernetes and Docker. In that context, the trade-offs make sense. But i guess my only plea would be, let's please not overcook and overcomplicate things from the get-go. Bringing Kubernetes into the discussion is almost the canonical example of over-complication for hosting a mailing list. > > I think it's noble and understandable to want to do work up-front to make things infinitely lift-and-shiftable, but personally my philosophy is what is sometimes jokingly called "KISS - keep it simple, stupid". Concretely, that would mean i'd favour using (e.g.) plain-old Mailman from a package repository of Linux or indeed (Rich's suggestion) OpenBSD for stability and security. > > If i'm to be involved in the technical side of things (and that's the main reason i volunteered for janitorial duties) i'd want to hold off on committing to any one particular hosting company / technological choice / etc. because, as others have pointed out, our main difficulties are social. > > I hope my response is sufficiently measured, but the mention of Kubernetes hit a bit of a nerve for me :). > > Cheers, > p. > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: https://mail.ljudmila.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nettime-tmp > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@kein.org > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: https://mail.ljudmila.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nettime-tmp # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: