Frédéric Neyrat via nettime-l on Mon, 18 Dec 2023 11:00:05 +0100 (CET) |
[Date Prev] [Date Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]
Re: <nettime> the silence on the rising fascism / non-violence |
Hi Andreas, Yes, shame can be a very good way to produce a form of consciousness, of acknowledgement of a terrible event, like the one that happened on the 7th of October, you're right. Shame, and/or guilt, compassion, disgust, many possibilities. However, it's strange that you quote, from transplanet.org, only the one thing that *seems* to support your claim (why not https://www.trans-planet.org/abolishing-the-world-order-in-a-radical-ceasefire or the poem of Lewis Freedman that we published https://www.trans-planet.org/inaugural-harm or the originary call there: https://www.trans-planet.org/a-call-to-rise-for-peace) Let me also add that you put in your translation a term that is *not* in the French text, the term "murder," "*meurtre*" in French - maybe you wanted to say "violence"? (but that's the same term in French). So yes, as you said, difficult to "contribute to a conversation" like this one. But we need to! I need to assume that you were *not* dishonest but, like me, worried, desperate, crying, in pain, and angry and then desperate etc. I need, we need to think of a way to interrupt the circle of death! My best, Frédéric __________________________________ ________________ Website: Atopies <https://atoposophie.wordpress.com/> _______ ALienstagram <https://www.instagram.com/alienocene/> On Mon, Dec 18, 2023 at 9:50 AM Andreas Broeckmann via nettime-l < nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> wrote: > Am 18.12.23 um 01:23 schrieb podinski via nettime-l: > > > > the silences ( here in Berlin and DE especially ) are really > > disturbing ! and shameful ! > > pod, i understand the irritation and the agitation, though it is perhaps > not so difficult to comprehend the general situation in berlin if you > take the history of the past 75 (+3+12+15+4+43+x) years into > consideration.* which perhaps doesn't make the current situation less > disturbing, but the dilemma more understandable that many find > themselves in. > > as regards the discussion here on the list, it's hard for me personally > to contribute to conversations that go like this one. where the meek > fear of antisemitism is equalised with a call to murder, and where > differentiation of place and event is extrapolated into global analysis. > - see two examples below. (one comes from trans-planet.org that Frédéric > pointed us to: i respect the thinking that leads to these opinions, but > where to start a conversation that is headlined by "the interdiction of > the event with Judith Butler ... is an interdiction of peace ... and is > the promotion of war ... and murder"?) > > i have an inkling that a careful conversation about shame and why people > feel it (and why other people don't), might be an interesting starting > point. [who feels shame for the events of 7 October?] - maybe these are > conversations that one can not easily have in a large, public space. > > greetings, > -a > > PS: as regards the case of the Oyoun cultural centre in berlin, i > recommend to also read up on the history of the "Werkstatt der > Kulturen", and to recap the political changes in berlin since the 2016 > and the february 2023 elections. for some of the political > decision-makers, the current situation might only be a pretext (in which > case the political campaign to save Oyoun's funding might have to be > recalibrated). > > * The German Minister of Economics, Robert Habeck of the Green Party, > explained in November, some weeks after the pogrom of 7 October, the > basics of an attitude which is complicated, not easy: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdZvkkpJaVI > > > Am 18.12.23 um 08:11 schrieb Frédéric Neyrat via nettime-l: > > > > Indeed, which civility should "speak"? Maybe the one of a planetary > > ceasefire, rethinking non-violence at its roots (MLK, Gandhi, J. Butler's > > latest book, "The Force of non-violence," see also the 7th chapter of > > Robinson's Black Marxism). We're working on this with some friends: > > https://www.trans-planet.org/ (texts in French and English: > > "L’interdiction de la rencontre publique « Contre l’antisémitisme, son > instrumentalisation et pour la paix révolutionnaire en Palestine », où > Judith Butler devait parler au nom de Jewish Voice for Peace, est > l’expression d’un vœu profond : interdire la paix. > Interdire la paix est promouvoir la guerre. > Promouvoir la guerre est appeler à la violence : > la violence pour maintenir un ordre injuste, pour mener des guerres à > l’extérieur et pour assurer l’ordre intérieur par la brutalité policière. > Leur pacification s’appelle la mort." > > > > Re: the silence on the rising fascism > > by Brian Holmes via nettime-l > > > > Similar to Germany, the center left and right have come together in the > US > > to seal off any public discussion about the war, despite polls showing > that > > a majority is against sending arms to massacre Palestinians. Meanwhile > the > > big discussion in the press is literally about dictatorship, how much > > dictatorship would be possible under a second Trump presidency. It's > eerie, > > because at the same time you have Milei assuming power in Argentina and > > devaluing the peso by 51% on the first day, with his security minister > > saying that previously existing restraints will be abandoned, police on > the > > street will carry live rounds and protests will be confined to the > > sidewalk. That's a recipe for a social explosion on a very short > timeline. > > In short this is the heaviest atmosphere I ever lived through in the > > Americas. > > > > It seems that climate change, the Russo-Chinese challenge to US hegemony, > > and at the same time, boundary-busting technological innovations and > > twisted perspectives of yet another capitalist growth binge have all > opened > > up a nihilistic sense of the need for states and elites to make a move. > The > > geopolitical crisis and paradigm shift that Armin Medosch and I were so > > keen to analyze a decade ago is happening now. It's already on a huge > scale > > and it could get bigger. At the same time I think civil society has only > > begun to speak, and there is an incredible amount to be said. The Empire > > itself is naked barbarism. What are we gonna do? > -- > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: https://www.nettime.org > # contact: nettime-l-owner@lists.nettime.org > -- # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: https://www.nettime.org # contact: nettime-l-owner@lists.nettime.org