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[Nettime-nl] [ZEROGLAB ÜBERGROUND] RE: ongıs hat
Karoly Toth on Thu, 29 May 2003 05:42:55 +0200 (CEST)

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[Nettime-nl] [ZEROGLAB ÜBERGROUND] RE: ongıs hat


'allo, 'allo, WHY ROTTERDAM! http://www-whyrotterdam.tk

i publish this on nettime-nl because it may concern others as well.

> make new connections between the ³underground² and the ³establishment²

³points of inspiration² = establishment
= so (self)called counter culture financed by the government
counter culture (underground) = against something

³points of inspiration² = kijkcijfers = populism = pays well nowdays (it
always pays well)

i am not against anything
it is a waste of time/energy to be against such things as governments e.g.  
underground = folklore = counterculture  =  a bad tag = semantic rubbish

i don't know much about p/o/i
p/o/i = a memetic host 4 me
p/o/i is an attempt to gain controle over things which are already out of
controle. it seams a nobel efford. 
4 me it is a communication channel. one comm. channel.
p/o/i = watching me & i watch p/o/i
it is the watching business :)

counter culture  =  like atheisme
[you are against something which, according your believe (:))))) does not
exists ( god, in this case) it is a semant./semio. rubbish.
fighting against ghosts is discussed in many ways, books .... cervantes,
etc. it is a romantic attitude]. it is a logical nonsense. a rat-trap.

counter culture = playing with romantic/populist sentiments
people need this suff, it seams... it is OK byme. 

i have nothing to do with that.

> Trammelant (kraaker-bladje). 
tell me more ...
it looks like class struggle :)

navigation = OK 4 me
it = moving
tell me more ...

> have some tips, leads or your own suspicion about the connection
> innbetween
> politics and art/culture in r:dam.

there is certainly a connection.
i dont know any gossip if you mean that :)
it has all to do with the society. politics has lost the grip on the society
on many issues. society (?) has no interest in politics.
it is boring, not honets, complex, honest, corrupt, so on.
every society deserves the leaders they have got. the dutch society is not
an exception. 

i have only a few preconceptions what a culture should be. only a few
parameters. it is an open end game 4 me. politics operates with securities &
statistics. the greatest pol. issues deal with securities. it can deal only
with closed ends. it is a linear perspectivic system. 

signal processing is a different thing, it is a stream. politics = unable to
handle streaming, and assyncronity. pol. always works with boundaries. it
can only deal with negotiated entities. it can not deal with aerodynamics.
only by building dams.

> you also have a serious interest in these matters, we ask if you might not
> have some tips, leads or your own suspicion about the connection

well... suspicions.... i am not paranoid. :)

locus010 [Hoogstraat HUF rotterdam] is a place which is exploited by people
which are subsidised by the city burocracy. they are well organized, they
organize mass events, they employ body guards which operate as corporations.
so, these places are already exploited by the entertainment industry.
'underground' is a big business. it is maybe new in rotterdam, but it is
going on for about 20-30 years. it is a corporate business. i see the same
bodyguards at many places in rotterdam. they are in off corso, and other
places. the places where the youth can go in rotterdam are very limited.
this hiatus is artificial to create a market, so, there is a market,
controlled by the city council and the companies which depend on it.
ontwikkelingsbedrijf (o.b.r.)  rotterdam for example.  the places which suit
for a certain 'subculture' are controlled by a small group or groups. they
sell bear, place, 'entertainment', noise, and the feeling of being the part
of a counterculture. 

it is a business. it is big money. 
in hungary (and the east block or the us / russia.) they are more advanced
in this. it is there a full fusion of the entertainment industry, security
industry and the politics. it is relative new in rotterdam.

b.t.w. they are also quite arrogant. or will be in the future.
the spirit of pim is more visible. thats all. pim (l.p.f.) cafe, etc. beer,
shout, etc.

i have been there once. there where plenty of bodyguards as well in the lpf
it is a decent old fashion maffia. just business don pietro. left or right?
it's the same. it's business. 

we where together at the unveiling of the fortuyn monumet in rotterdam at
the fortis bank building. pim ripped in twoo by a shark as a piece of art in
public space. after being beheaded. 
you also have seen the neofascist who was making a speech there, officially
with the millionairs together. tsjakka party guy was there too. and the
other rich guys.
what can i say more?
this is rotterdam. 

maffia and counter maffia.


grtnx kroy

zeroglab rotterdam
Karoly Toth

<citaat van="W H Y">

> hi karoly,
> one of these übergrounds we will have to do something about navigation in
> your flat.
> MAy 10: Locus. you have the link to ³points of inspiration² on your site.
> we
> have been there with suspicion, especially after reading a related article
> in the Trammelant (kraaker-bladje). We wonder if you might have more
> information regarding the ³Points of Inspiration² project which happens at
> Hoogstraat HUF. From our understanding, their intention is to re-evaluate
> or
> make new connections between the ³underground² and the ³establishment² or
> government. This can happen in a number of ways, good and bad.
> www.pointsofinspiration.nu has interesting articles but we are
> curious/suspicious if there isn't a greater intention to exploit or profit
> from the popularity of the current ³broedplatsen² discussions.  As we
> figure
> you also have a serious interest in these matters, we ask if you might not
> have some tips, leads or your own suspicion about the connection
> innbetween
> politics and art/culture in r:dam.
> later,
> pc
> --
> W H Y
> Het Poortgebouw
> 38 Stieltjesstraat
> 3071 JX Rotterdam
> +31 (0)6 25355557
> http://www-whyrotterdam.tk
> http://www.innbetween.tk
> http://www.blacklodge.tk

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