nettime',, dig on Sat, 22 Jun 2002 18:39:25 +0200 (CEST)

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Re: <nettime> How We Made Our Own "Carnivore" [Thomas, Packer, plasmastudii]

   Re: [syndicate] Re: <nettime> How We Made Our Own "Carnivore" [6x]              
     "clement Thomas" <>                                                 

   Re: <nettime> How We Made Our Own "Carnivore"                                   
     Randall Packer <>                                             

   Re: <nettime> How We Made Our Own "Carnivore"                                   
     "sorry, this is not real.," <>                           


Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:50:57 +0200
From: "clement Thomas" <>
Subject: Re: [syndicate] Re: <nettime> How We Made Our Own "Carnivore" [6x]

facing n city plantigrade thus sliding into frisson ...

gimmie the handkerchief netty dear.
Atchoum's snuff is about to underSnowWhite la culotte ...

- --
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 5:29 AM
Subject: [syndicate] Re: <nettime> How We Made Our Own "Carnivore" [6x]




Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 14:22:44 -0400
From: Randall Packer <>
Subject: Re: <nettime> How We Made Our Own "Carnivore"

In my mind, it is important to keep in mind that the Carnivore 
software itself is the focal point of the project. At this early 
stage, I think the applications being developed are skimming the 
surface of what is possible. The use of network data to generate 
real-time visual and musical experiences is clearly in its infancy. 
But Carnivore has effectively carried out an appropriation of 
Government surveillance systems - used to spy on cyber traffic - to 
open the door to new aesthetic possibilities that transform these 
systems and these data structures.


At 1:24 PM +0200 6/21/02, Andreas Broeckmann wrote:
>  >1) artist-made diagnosic clients created by leading net artists around
>>the world



Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 15:09:51 -0400
From: "sorry, this is not real.," <>
Subject: Re: <nettime> How We Made Our Own "Carnivore"

>instead of stumbling over technical details, perhaps the nettime
>community can engage in a deeper critique of [my] software and its uses?

it's really chic to make work that is incomprehensible to the average 
viewer.  I'm sure you would agree that the average person walking 
down B'way has no idea what that display is about.  In that way, it 
is for a microscopically specific audience.  Extremely elitist in the 
most literal sense.  But you have to know all that.

So it would seem, that you find the technical level of discourse is 
not to your satisfaction, and given that the commenters at nettime 
are really far more computer techno knowledgeable than the vast 
majority of art audiences.  as long as it works for you and you are 
the bulk of the "target audience".  Whassa problem?

The critiques have been a little suspect already.  rave reviews from 
the rhizome crowd.  neutral, bordering on distracted disinterest on 
the thing, and panning from nettime.  You don't have reasons for 
folks at rhizome to shmooze do you?  but that's why "reviews" (even 
these informal ones) are ALWAYS suspect, they usually aren't written 
by folks with nothing to gain.  (including this).

True, nettime critiques mainly talk about technical issues (but 
that's the primary feature you bring up within the work itself).  No 
one can approach anything that ISN'T technical in it.  Even 
recognizing that much requires far more background than most of us 
have handy.  (Who'd want to "sniff" a "packet" anyway?) It's just not 
SAYING anything to most of us autonomously (without a lot of 
extraneous info.  Which is one peculiarly popular trend now in 
contemporary art, work that doesn't stand on it's own but requires 
externally supplied explanation).

No big deal.  Do 3 a week, after 20 years, the trend will pass.  If 
you still feel misunderstood, you can shrug and just try another one.



223 E 10th Street
PMB 130
New York, NY  10003


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