Louise Desrenards on Mon, 21 Apr 2003 13:25:42 +0200 (CEST)

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If People is a concept: might it be populist? Re: <nettime>Mesopotamia's burning

Sorry for my Frenchy(e)nglish..

So crazy reading that! But do you think really that the American society and
these traditions would be better than others?

Economics is not Politics since Political Economy is died... Now God
re-appears... Crazy fundamentalism on thought, on knowledge, on providential
nation, on culture, on trade, on army... everywhere the same monologue
inside... Total Power against the freeness to be anyone singular, the same
as against any country to be singular: because the singularity would appear
like a danger ‹ danger of the difference if it could not stay dominated!

Any American traditions hold nothing to be prouder than European's or
oriental's: specially the repression about politics and social-politics... I
could tell you about that, since the beginning of American History till
today. The list is so long. You could not forget American History about

You transport us returning to the centuries of Lights: Hegel, the dialectic
of the master and the slave. Re-read it and you will see. That was exactly
what Baudrillard reminded us recently observing the regard from Occident
(Continental and Anglo-American) to the otherness. You are on the side of
the Master: a superman ; I am on the bridge (but outside of the tank ‹ where
you are again ;-) between the slaves and the master (of course I am a
French). Actual slaves are turning into "Islam" (South America would be
under-slaves already): a strange concept which was completely built from
American conception on politics; "Islam": what is Islam exactly? Could you
tell it me please?
    Next slave: Europe? ‹ as the Euro could cause any concurrence to Dollar,
we are designed to be destroyed. Could be a new way of the story of the word
Shibboleth? But even we would learn to say Shibboleth according our Master's
tradition, we could preserve our ubiquity on a total duplicity : we would
never approve our Master's point of view, or approve it forever, any case
the Master (on culpability) would never know what about him from his slave's

There is the destiny of the Master to never know really what about the slave
ubiquity (in our French culture Jean Genet as a materialist and
existentialist writer has written a lot about that (more a theater play from
a various fact on criminal affairs ‹ The Papin Sisters ‹  "The servants",
and Michel Foucault about Pierre Rivière ‹ Me Pierre Rivière...  Domination
is a way of life full with obstacles ;-)

 From another part since the dawn of its History, American Democracy is so
violent against its own people. Of course American people is magnificent but
terribly violent from a lot of causes and beginning his government since its
first History...

        On money: high dollar have given the quite possibility to the Power
of this large country in fact the most involved in debt world (doesn't
matter if the confluent money is high) : from this position upstream and
downstream to control IMF and MB, while all the South America could die
without any chance to access progress or taking the situation to be reversed
by a putsch (See last Chile under Allende Presidency: what happened from USA
nor the help for the putsch? or now Argentina which has lost all its
industrial structures so what the people could do when even the Oil does not
remain because the Junta government had sold it! which could remains to pay
their debt now, with their lowest money? In front of the country which can
live the top way in the world (for part of their people only not for all,
I'm sorry to remind it you), despite the fact of a worst debt?

 For example, devaluating the dollar twice times in nineties the problem
could be regulated as an account at the expenses of the Japanese funds of
retirements to credit the American consumption ‹ which is enormous: but what
happened consequently about the money then economy in the countries in
South East Asia and Pacific Asia which were designed as emergent to build
probably a G15 at Okinawa?.. Okinawa in fact stayed still a G8.

Then coming strongly any believing sects, one very large, very strong and
called Islam (a meta-Islam as a mass moving against the other religions of
the modern domination : but all turning far from their modern or post-modern
traditions ‹ even Israelites (meta-sionism) and Christians
(meta-christianism melting into Protestant threw the question of the
money):... So the American State, army and Intelligence, can have their
crusade to guarantee to their own people: security food and trading. As a
people ogre of "the rest of the word"... and the demonstrators at the World
trade center place last week, were not on a misunderstanding about that.

All in a conquest for a total and global materialistic power on earth
believing and trusting in God. The progress in this way give a bad smelling
of Eugenism, of an elective people on earth (two could be but not more).

Before, America was the most violent country against his people from Indian
to revolutionary communities on politics front of the government, would it
be a democracy in opening migrations, but a fantastic country about
foreigners. Now it would be the country of the supermen as the Master of the

Do you think really that the first one on thing or on fact, on everything,
could be allowed to destroy the chance for the new singularities possibly
following? The life is a perpetual metamorphosis that you could not control
a last. Any phenomena appears that you could not predict even you could have
a good prospective on a global situation. Remember of the flight of the
butterfly in meteorology: anything could happen as a new event that you
could not imagine (just the knowledge on the possible existence of things
that we could not mean or see ; that's exactly the people intelligence: the
criticism mass of the Power ‹ could be on economy or other field). The
chance is permanent and large: it comports a lost part of too much energy,
but a little part is perfectly useful and determining in a logical fatality
of the order of the things that you cannot control.
Why do you wait for exterminating otherness? for your self security but: WHO
ARE YOU? Why the power of the progress would alienate us into a complete and
national or globe prayer? we get it but it is not our master, even the
social progress, and the power of the technical-sciences would catch us into
their nets?

In France we have fight last year to keep away Le Pen from the Presidency,
how American people for the most of them according to the strategy in Iraq,
would not have move to get away Bush and the industrial-military lobby (and
others) away after the Lewinski affair?

>From the cluster bombs and wide bombs of the technical-sciences and populism
arrogance to elective people, till scorning ignorance on local cleverness
and culture of "the rest of the world': there could be a good racist and
national-centrist argument in your one to the American people.

le 20/04/2003 16:30, Keith Hart à HART_KEITH@compuserve.com a écrit :

> Are Flagan wrote:
>> I fear both of you are fatally wrong.<
> If I had had more space than the aisde you refer to, I would say that any
> movement for a better world would do well to look for support inside
> America. The Americans bring education, technology, economic power and a
> [ ... ]
> There are obvious links here to the new thread "Second Superpower" which
> also. unless I am mistaken, comes out of America.
> Mark Stahlman wrote:
>> This museum (along with the various "palaces") was the storehouse for
> many of those SSO "fetish" objects and it might be a "good" idea to
> scatter them to various ritual "temples" in the Alps and
> Paris/London/Berlin (where they are now probably heading) than to have
> them around in Iraq as it trys to shake its heritage as the Ur-UFO landing
> site (i.e. the "cradle" of civilization.)<
> I am grateful for this reminder of the link between the occult and the new
> communication technologies (and for addressing the substance of my
> satirical sausage mix.  I believe that we are primitives who just stumbled
> into the first possibility of making a species consciousmess. Then we
> might get up the speed to communicate with forms of life elsewhere. In the
> meantime, it's like ants trying to talk to us. The ant occult anyone?
> Keith Hart
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