<nettime> wrong signals [Hardie, Bradley, porculus, murphy]

["nettime's_od_2" <nettime-l@bbs.thing.net>]

   Re: <nettime> wrong signals [Dickson, Garcia, Hagenlocher]                      
     Martin Hardie <auskadi@tvcabo.co.mz>                                            

   Re: <nettime> wrong signals                                                     
     Rick Bradley <roundeye@roundeye.net>                                            

   knock knock it'z zexpolizei                                                     
     "porculus" <porculus@wanadoo.fr>                                                

   Re: <nettime> wrong signals                                                     
     murphy <murphy@thing.net>                                                       


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Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 19:09:34 +0200
From: Martin Hardie <auskadi@tvcabo.co.mz>
Subject: Re: <nettime> wrong signals [Dickson, Garcia, Hagenlocher]

On Monday 15 December 2003 18:49, you wrote:
> Ian Dickson wrote
>
> > The pictures I saw (on the BBC) of cheering crowds in Iraq seemed to
> > indicate that lots of people in Iraq, those who know SH best, are quite
> > pleased with the turn of events.


Yes like the close up pictures of the that greeted the destruction of Saddam's 
statue of liberation day I am sure that the TV picures are extremely accurate 
(irony or sarcasm Dicko unless you miss it)

remeber the long shots showed only a few actually there and virtually 
outnumber by their liberators

I think the Garcia guy has(d) a point and Curt is right who cares thier worth 
is in "winning" an  "election" at home or rather their contribution to the 
spectacle

M
- -- 
                   
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
http://openflows.org/~auskadi/

"Mind you, I am not asking you to bear witness to what you believe false, 
which would be a sin, but to testify falsely to what you believe true - which 
is a virtuous act because it compensates for lack of proof of something 
that certainly exists or happened." Bishop Otto to Baudolino in Umberto Eco's 
Baudolino.


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Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:16:32 -0500
From: Rick Bradley <roundeye@roundeye.net>
Subject: Re: <nettime> wrong signals

* David Garcia (davidg@xs4all.nl) [031215 09:23]:
> The image of an Arab leader (however terrible) being objectivised by a
> white gloved American medic like a bug on a lab bench, will not be read in
> the Arab world as a moment of liberation. It will be seen as a special
> kind of humiliation, the kind which typifies the depth of ignorance which
> has inspired this campaign from its outset.

You mistyped "the depth of ignorance which has chronicled this campaign
from its outset".

Those who are humiliated at the sight of Saddam's descent to earth and
dissection by the Great Infidel are intended to wallow in their
humiliation, to pick up arms, and to charge into the killing zone to
receive their .50 caliber martyrdom ticket.

Those who are above such nonsense are rejoicing in the streets and
continuing to rebuild the lives merely ruined (and not obliterated) by
this offal on a lab bench.

> Once again the images (chosen with great care one imagines, given the
> time lapse between Saddam's capture and the John Wayne style
> triumphalism of the announcement) treats Arab opinion to a further
> demonstration of the power of the west to objectivize the world under
> a coolly scientific gaze. In this context no mediaeval torturer could
> have conceived of a greater humiliation than the medical torch's
> pencil thin beam illuminating the inside of the tyrant's mouth.
>
> A stupidity of almost incomprehensible proportions seems bent on
> prosecuting a war against terror in which the twenty-four hour news
> machine is mobilized to disseminate images that do little more than
> fan the flames of hate.

The fallacy, discredited soundly 825 days ago, yet still so readily at
the hand of the ignorant is the notion that appeasement and pandering to
a medieval culture of violence and oppression would somehow gain peace
and tranquility for the modern world.  The fruits of cowtowing to the
likes of Saddam, Assad, bin Laden, and Arafat are smoldering holes,
blood-soaked synagogues, and mass-graves filled with bullet-pocked
skulls.

This conflict is being prosecuted in large part as a penance, a
reparation, a correction for decades of moronic and corrupt policy
judgments by (all) administrations dating back at least to Gerald Ford.

One doctrine that the electorate (and by extension this administration)
has dismissed as not simply useless, but egregious, is the "Why do they
hate us?"/"Root Cause" appeasement doctrine.  This has been discarded by
those in power, and those who gave them even more power in the last
elections.  They believe in its fallacy as strongly as past appeasers
believed in its truth.

To put it as plainly as possible, we have been soundly and bloodily
instructed on the matter and the lesson is this:  if we don't humiliate
Them They will kill us, and if we do humiliate Them They will try to
kill us, and if we humiliate the fuck out of Them then the ones with any
sense are ready to talk about not killing any more while the crazy
suicidal medieval fuckheads come running for miles to martyr themselves
in the crosshairs of the 4ID.

I may agree (and do) with a lot of criticisms about how my government, a
government which I voted against, runs its country and its war, but
asking me to believe it is stupid not to accelerate the war of attrition
against the radical hatemongers bent on turning this planet into a
Wahabbist acid-throwing honor-killing jihadi nightmare is asking for a
fucking wake-up call.

Ring.  Ring.

Rick
- -- 
 http://www.rickbradley.com    MUPRN: 403
                       |  thousand) and a
   random email haiku  |  crack (or on crack) admin staff.
                       |  Stony Brook's CS dept.


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Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 20:12:16 +0100
From: "porculus" <porculus@wanadoo.fr>
Subject: knock knock it'z zexpolizei


> The pictures I saw (on the BBC) of cheering crowds in Iraq seemed to
> indicate that lots of people in Iraq, those who know SH best, are quite
> pleased with the turn of events.

yes it look like the last stage of starship tropper when the winner exulting
during some are doing kind of proctological examination to the odious
creature with
the tag 'censored' on the tv..the prob it's hate run according the same way
of love & the object of hate is also a private one. it's not irakian
veterinarian who have some joy to show their er decompensated fear in making
of their ancient beast terror an object of ridicule, what could be a so
natural desire, but a west unfaithfull...it's just so bad taste, nearly as
bad as hairy rhizome art base, i.e. a seizure of joy. anyway i i take it in
bad part too, cause throught saddam humiliation it's all earthling male that
are objectifying as kind of ridicoulous sexual object..as male i am so
highly ofended it's evident bush is running for hilary i.e. for chicks as
president of united states


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Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:44:35 -0500
From: murphy <murphy@thing.net>
Subject: Re: <nettime> wrong signals


Did anyone else notice that one of the "spontaneous demonstrations" 
shown on TV had a number of communist flags waving?  I thought at first 
it was a crescent but, no, it was the hammer and cycle of the Soviet 
Union. It certainly wasn't the Iraqi flag. There was nothing said about 
the clip but it was shown continuously yesterday on the cable channels.

murph
offshore|online


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