Re: <nettime> apropos of nothing

And with appreciation for your reflections on what needs to be changed, Ted, that came in while I was writing this -

How can you seriously all repeat your trust in the moderation poiicies after what happened?

AB’s mails kept coming, even after the super concise and easy-to-grasp comments of Alice and Ian

Had indicated in which direction AB was going -

While my criticism of AB’s behaviour was held back for several hours?

So now that we know that you actively put people on a „moderated status“ I need to ask:

A Nazi gets granted that status only after a long week and many hate mails with many crossed lines, but I was already

On moderated status….for what exactly?

For softly criticising Felix a few months ago, funny enough, on a related topic, when he totally out of the blue used the

Defence of a women as a line of argumentation against someone else?

(Cornelia Sollfrank had posted an online petition, Alexandre Carvalho had replied online petitions „do shitz“, but in no

Way attacked Cornelia - and believe me, had he done so, I would have been there for her. I agreed with Felix on his general

Comments but called employing a defence of Cornelia to lash out Against Alexandre a bit of a „poor stunt“, pointing out that

„Men mostly use this as an argument when trying to discredit other men whose opinions they don’t share or whose territories

They wish to annex“.

If you were serious with your concerns, Felix, that this list doesn’t encourage women enough to speak, why didn’t you answer me or engage in the AB case early enough?)

Or was it my following comment in the same mail that I seriously worried if all hope was lost on this list in relation to online

Activism, and that it felt like everyone has succumbed to a pessimism that only engages in reactive analyses anymore and Professionalising one’s expertise for the education market?

Rendering this into a general question:

Isn’t maybe a fully unmoderated list,

Or an algorithm doing the job

(That probably would have grabbed AB by his extinction-endangered balls immediately),

Better than a system

That is only as good as the gender/race literacy and sensitivity of its moderators,

Respectively as the sensitivity of their egos?

(Yes, I am a big fan of "Auge/Maschine" by Harun Farocki, and its accidental, unintended message:

Humans appear as annoying, loud, clumsy creatures, while the machines softly, calmly and tenderly

Do their job, only what they are asked to do, and nothing on top of it. ;))

Best, N

Am 06.11.2018 um 13:44 schrieb Jo M2M <jo@xs4all.nl>:

Yes, the fundamental question lurking in any collective is "who cleans the toilet?".
--
* please, don't other me *
Jo van der Spek M2M
v. Ostadestraat 49
1072SN Amsterdam
http://schipholbrand.net
dinsdag, 06 november 2018, 00:19p.m. +01:00 van Andreas Broeckmann ab@mikro.in-berlin.de:

friends, i'm an active lurker on this list since 1996; my answer to
angela's question ("What is Nettime's policy on whether or not it should
give fascists a platform from which to recruit?") would be that
"nettime" probably doesn't have a "policy" on anything, other than the
openness to questions; i'm sure there are people here who can put this
in a more nuanced theoretical language, but i imagine the list and the
discourse it supports as "in flux" and as something that takes its shape
through the things that people write, and through the ways in which they
respond to each other. - in the given case, the point for me would be
not to ask what some (general) "policy" might be, but to state clearly
and concretely that i'm against allowing anything that smacks of fascist
trolling or recruitment. a statement like this constitutes the quality
of this list which has, as its "policy", only a certain, vague
collective spirit which requires critical voices like angela's to
express their opinion. therefore: i support ted's decision to moderate
some of the contributions since, given 22 years of trust-building, i
believe he is acting in the spirit of the list and the discourse it
serves to constitute.
(not sure whether this is an answer to julia's question.)
regards,
-a

Am 05.11.18 um 01:57 schrieb Julia Röder:
> about that
>
> > dear angela,
> > relax dear.
> > it is ok.
> > noone is recruiting anyone here.
> > chill.
> > best,
> > w
>
> so, is that it? silence about this from the whole list except from angela?
> do you all not say anything because you think this is trolling or this
> is normal??
>
>
>  Message: 1
>  Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2018 11:12:54 +1100
>  From: Angela Mitropoulos <angela.mitropoulos@gmail.com
>  >
> To: Nettime <nettime-l@kein.org >
> Subject: Re: apropos of nothing
>
>  It is a simple and straightforward question that I would like
>  answered. It
>  makes no inferences about whether recruitment is effective, or even
>  deliberate rather than aesthetic. But I'm grateful for the evidence
>  you've
>  furnished, dear, about the way in which women are told to calm down and
>  shut up, no matter the tone they take, so that those who think women and
>  black people are less than human and not entitled to take up space
>  can keep
>  ranting on at length about how everyone other than white guys are
>  less than
>  human. I mean, I'm grateful that you've illustrated the reason why I
>  asked
>  this question in the first place. That said, I have no interest in
>  debating
>  this further.
>
>  I simply repeat my question, and would like it answered. Preferably
>  in the
>  negative. But if in the affirmative, then I would like to suggest that
>  Nettime be shuttered because any benefit it had for creating a
>  better world
>  has long past. The world doesn't need a longform version of Gab, or
>  Gab for
>  that matter.
>
> Angela
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