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| <nettime> world digest center [mez chuen integer fleming byrd pieter skoric(x3)] |
"ap][e][ologger" <netwurker@pop.hotkey.net.au>
..a post.ing as yet not sent...
"Jimmy Choi Kam Chuen" <jimmychoi_kc@hotmail.com>
[no subject]
integer@www.god-emil.dk
[no subject]
Jim Fleming <jim@autonomedia.org>
"The Mayor Speaks, NYC, 9/11"
"Don Byrd" <dbyrd1@nycap.rr.com>
predictability
"Pieter" <smallaxe@xs4all.nl>
Fw: Pilger Inevitable ring to the unimaginable
"Ivo Skoric" <ivo@reporters.net>
Re: <nettime> It's the law!-Or is it the money?
"Ivo Skoric" <ivo@reporters.net>
Re: one more thing
"Ivo Skoric" <ivo@reporters.net>
?
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Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 11:53:56 +1000
"From: ap][e][ologger" <netwurker@pop.hotkey.net.au>
Subject: ..a post.ing as yet not sent...
...have been trying 2 type a certain posting since the n.itial flurry of
American-11/9 event-driven responses were sent to the list [i'm not
n.clined 2 use the wurd "terrorism", it n.vokes connotations i'm
uncomfortable with given the current lingual climate]...i've been reluctant
2 do so as i'm not keen 2 add 2 the trauma that these events have so
obviously caused....
...my primary reaction after ][literally][ hearing the news ][via a
national ozzie radio station][ was a type of active ][media
drenched][somnambulism, almost biologic][hormon][ally-repressed panic,
which i now recognise as a typical ][after][ shock reaction. i've since
seen other manifestations of this via this list & others ][as well as in
r/t][, n.cluding ppl's vehement re:action 2 my "reality smear" net.wurks &
talan memmott's call via the webartery list for "no more theory" - with
which i heavily m.pathize [in terms of his own personal context - being an
American stranded outside America @ this time must provoke a terrifying
dislocation shift that would hinder the grief/healing process]...
...this need 2 x.press/reveal affective states rather than n.gage
analytically is likewise understandable, in terms of the
emotively-overwhelming characteristics such information must elicit...[i
haven't had any personal involvement with ppl missing/deaths or been
directly affected in any other way but have undergone similar
cataclysmic/stress sequences that i equate with thi][e][s][e][]]...
...wot i am terribly saddened by is the n.sidious way this shock-time
period has been commandeered 2 create a type of a][e][ffective-propaganda
machine, and hence act 2 largely negate the traumatic fibrillations many of
the personal tragedies r displaying...we r s][imulacrum][eeing individual
circumstances being overwritten/subsumed via x.p][onentially][anding war
t][orque][alk...this type of additional collusive damage is so unecessary
in a time when legitimate grief & x.pressions of loss should be the primary
currency in terms of USA culture-mechanisms... n.stead this shock period is
being utilized by USA control systematics ][militaristic, gover.mental][ to
force their own agenda.
so][m][b][r][ed,
][mez/apologuer][
. . .... .....
net.wurker][mez][
.antithetical..n.struments..go.here.
xXXx
./.
www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker
.... . .??? .......
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From: "Jimmy Choi Kam Chuen" <jimmychoi_kc@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 15:35:18 +0000
Subject: [no subject]
I have been watching TV news in London since the 11-Sep tragedy. I found it
strange that while leaders of both America and Britain are talking about war
and retaliation. I don't see images of American public rallying the street
as they did before the gulf war or scenes like the Chinese rallying after
their embassy was bombed or rallies and battle cries of Lebanese ever time
the Israelis attacked and killed their people. Can this be explained by
away by 1. the attack was so unbelivable and serious that the American
public (including those outside of NY, Washington, and Penn) are still numb?
2. they are not certain about which enemy although the government is almost
certain that it was Bin Laden's doing. 3. the American public is so sure of
going to war that they don't need this kind of battle cry or rally to show
there determination or sentiment. 4 there are rallies but the media censored
it on purpose.
It seems to me that the American leaders are trying to lead it people into
war but the sentiment of the American public reported on TV does not seem to
be in syn with it. Why? Is it strange and worth investigation. Or may be
there are reports but I just missed them?
Jimmy Choi
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
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From: integer@www.god-emil.dk
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 13:50:33 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [no subject]
from: .no
>Antall d<AF>dsofre ved terrorangrepet 11. sept. tilsvarer det som omkommer ved
>bilulykker i USA p<C2> 6-7 uker
tr: the total number of victims of the terrorist attack on 11 september
is the same as the number of people killed in car accidents every 6-7
weeks.
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Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 12:34:58 -0400
From: Jim Fleming <jim@autonomedia.org>
Subject: "The Mayor Speaks, NYC, 9/11"
>>An "Anonymous Comrade" post to http://slash.autonomedia.org/
>>
>>"The Mayor Speaks, NYC, 9/11"
>>
>>We'll need a year
>>To count the dead.
>>
>>The missing
>>Will be missing
>>Forever.
>>
>>Crime is down by half.
>>So is the market.
>>
>>Everything else
>>Is down
>>To ashes.
>>
>>We are all
>>Very brave.
>>And we are all
>>Very proud of that.
>>
>>We are all
>>Working very hard.
>>And we all
>>Must be
>>Very proud of that.
>>
>>God bless us all.
>>I think,
>>Just now,
>>I see
>>His shining face.
>>--
>>
>>Jim@autonomedia.org
>>http://www.autonomedia.org
>
>
>--
>
>Jim@autonomedia.org
>http://www.autonomedia.org
--
Jim@autonomedia.org
http://www.autonomedia.org
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From: "Ivo Skoric" <ivo@reporters.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 11:21:43 -0400
Subject: predictability
The world returned to its predictable ways - the insurance
companies and airlines took heavy losses on the market. Which
was quite expectable, given that there is still potential danger of
boarding a commercial airliner, and our government is not dispelling
that fear.
So far, there is 5000+ missing from the WTC knock-down, and that
number is rising as steady as the Dow-Jones index is falling.
Giulliani is upfront saying that from now on we should not really
expect to find survivors. Now this is as grim a job as it was for
Russians to pull up their Kursk submarine.
TV said yesterday that those 5000+ people hailed from 62 nations.
So, this, literally was more than an attack on America. A lot of
Muslims, a lot of Arabs died, too. But I don't think Osama cares
about that - he reached his grandiose goal (that he missed in 1993)
of having the WTC crushed into rubble - whatever the cost.
Even Ghadaffi is giving the U.S. a "green light" to avenge
themselves. But I don't think this should be about revenge. This
should be about ending terrorism. A simple revenge may just bring
about more terrorism. A Russian war veteran from Afghanistan,
naturally, suggests that American carpet bomb and napalm the
entire country. I do not doubt he lost many friends in the war and
that he would really enjoy having that country turned to charcoal by
American military might. But Osama may get away, and his
terrorist network may remain largely unscathed, even if Afghanistan
is nuked. This is like trying to kill cockroaches with a machine gun.
And Taliban leaders already issued a series of their "make no
mistake" statements, that they intend to turn Afghanistan to a
graveyard of American soldiers, should they attack them.
Afghanistan is big, sparsely populated, very rugged, has high
mountain ridges, and is not easy to fight there for foreigners.
Russians lost the war there. That's not encouraging. But Russians
lost, because Americans were helping mujahedeen. This time
Americans may not lose, because Russians are very unlikely to be
helping Taliban. In the matter of fact, there is nobody who is likely
to help Taliban (Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan show vague support,
but they are too dependent on Russia for survival, to be openly
doing anything that may ire Kremlin). And their country may well
turn to be their own graveyard.
On the other hand - Afghanistan has a really nice geo-strategic
position for an American military base - beneath the Caspian basin,
where there is oil that America wants to control, above Iran and
Persian Gulf, and at the back of both Pakistani-Indian conflict over
Kashmere and at the back of China. In the long run, neither Iran nor
China might not feel too comfortable with the idea of having the US
presence there for an indefinite time. So, the US is clearly phrasing
this operation as an attempt to dig Osama out ('dead or alive') and,
perhaps, with wide Islamic countries support.
They would actually let Taliban, themselves a really rude and
obnoxious bunch that blows up two thousand years old statues of
Buddha and threats women worse than dogs, walk, if they just co-
operate and give up Bin Laden. All Islamic countries, however, have
the internal problem with their own Taliban-like Muslim
fundamentalist groups. This is similar to how all Western countries
still have far right neo-Nazi political parties and groups.
Nevertheless, democracies with stable economies cope with
extremism easier - they can allow political space for extremist
groups without compromising the mainstream society. None of the
Islamic countries are really democracies and a those that have bad
economies are at a constant threat that a group like Taliban would
violently take over. That returns us to the basics: economic justice
and political freedoms are the best cure against the terrorism, the
same how healthy eating and a lot of excersise are the best cure
against a heart attack. Of course, now, since the attack happened,
some sort of a tripple bypass is predictable.
ivo
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From: "Don Byrd" <dbyrd1@nycap.rr.com>
Subject: It has taken a week
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 12:30:04 -0400
I have been trying to think what I think. This morning I put a short
piece for anyone interested at this URL
http://www.albany.edu/~djb85/dbWebIndex.htm
It is about 2000 words. It Begins:
SOMETHING BIG HAS HAPPENED:
THERE ARE NO COMMERCIALS ON TV
In the aftermath of the terror, 9-11-01.
The immediate suffering and destruction occupy ones thoughts. The need
for feeling is immense, but feeling is not easy. No one knows what to feel.
How many video cameras were aimed at the WTC Tuesday morning? Television
seems to have an almost endless supply of new footage. We see it again and
again from many vantages on television and in our sleep. It is all,
however, silent. The airliners hit silently. The fire balls flare silently.
The towers collapse silently. The world has become a worse place for every
one. For those in and near the towers, this worsening of the world must
have been experienced as incomprehensible sound, but for the rest of us, the
terror and sadness reverberate in silence.
For those who believe in terror, for whom Terror is a God, terror
simplifies. The simplification is credible proof of the deity's power.
Fundamentalisms of all kinds-religious, scientific, economic, sociological,
ethical-all simplify, and the simplifications are violent and destructive
because the complexity of the world is forced into the City of the Simple by
way of a single, narrow gate.
The god Terror has two kinds of followers-the agents of terror and the
terrified. They belong to the most vicious circle. The one makes no
distinction between the guilty and the innocent, killing indifferently. The
others accept the terrorists' simplification and respond. The greater the
simplification, the greater the reverberation. The reverberations of this
terror may become deafening or have already. Those of us who were not near
enough to hear the first impacts are deaf. We do not hear the explosions or
the screams. How do we get out of this circle? Inside the worship of terror
the reverberating silence can only continue. It is necessary to multiply
perspectives and rise to higher levels of complexity from which many of
perspectives can be comprehended at once. This is always the task of
knowing, but at certain times, the imperative is doubly compelling.
Best,
Don Byrd
Albany, NY
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From: "Pieter" <smallaxe@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Fw: Pilger Inevitable ring to the unimaginable
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 19:20:16 +0200
----- Original Message -----
from: "Pieter" <smallaxe@xs4all.nl>
to:
sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 5:59 PM
subject: Pilger Inevitable ring to the unimaginable
> An interesting take on recent events by John Pilger (tho' understandably
> not necessarily what Americans would want to hear right now):
>
> http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/archive/13-9-19101-0-24-43.html
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From: "Ivo Skoric" <ivo@reporters.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 15:57:08 -0400
Subject: Re: <nettime> It's the law!-Or is it the money?
France has nuclear weapons of its own. America does not engage
countries that have nuclear weapons. Well, at least it never did -
Pakistan might be the first.
Also, France is a part of the Western civilization, i.e. "our ways" - it
may be often at odds with the U.S. but it functions within the same
paradigm. To its credit the U.S. is remarkably tolerant and will let
its opponents in peace on most occassions.
After all, it is hard to imagine that any other country would let a
confirmed terrorist, that attacked U.S. on numerous previous
occasions, live free for so long, as the U.S. did with Osama -
Chinese and Russians would hunt and kill him as soon as he
stopped being useful to them (1989), French and German would
hunt at kill him after his first serious strike (1993), British and
Spanyards would probably wait until the embassy bombings
(1998), only the US needs to get really fucked up to drop the
remote control and get up from the couch...
ivo
date sent: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 15:25:27 -0400
from: "Marko Maglich" <MMaglich@ny.whitecase.com>
to: ivo@balkansnet.org
subject: Re: <nettime> It's the law!-Or is it the money?
Okay. But we don't just strike at those who don't follow our ways.
France would have been obliterated by now.
--Marko
<...>
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From: "Ivo Skoric" <ivo@reporters.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 15:57:06 -0400
Subject: Re: one more thing
Yes. Apparently - the terrorists presented themselves as regular
hijackers. Hi, we are your friendly kidnappers. We have a bomb on
a plane, but we don't mean harm. Just remain calm and we shall
leave as soon as our demands are met. Only in the case of the
fourth plane - where some passengers learned over the cell phone
about the other three hijacked planes crashing into buildings, they
realized that something was wrong with those hijackings. And they
acted. All power to them. Too bad that none of them was train pilot.
Although I think the hijacker drove the plane to the ground whe he
saw the plan was unravelling. Only someone with a sick mind
B
could imagine where the planes heading for WTC were going. I
would, since I have a sick, conspiratorial, mind, be suspicious -
because hijackers do not regularly pilot the planes themselves -
that would raise a flag with me. Then if the plane would fly at a low
altitude, that would be another alarm. I would try to engage
hijackers in conversation, probing them for their demands. And,
since they were not armed with firearms, I think that passengers
would be able to overtake them in all 4 planes, if they thought what
was on their minds.
ivo
date sent: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 15:05:58 -0400
from: "Marko Maglich" <MMaglich@ny.whitecase.com>
to: ivo@balkansnet.org, edagro@bellatlantic.net
copies to: FrodeauxB@aol.com
subject: Re: one more thing
They thought it was a regular hi-jacking: take me to Cuba, etc. The only
plane where the passengers did manage to find out what was going on, seems
to have been brought down by those passengers attacking the hi-jackers.
--Marko
Marko C. Maglich
White & Case LLP
1155 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10036
U.S.A.
Tel: 212-819-8635
FAX: 212-354-8113
MMaglich@whitecase.com
>>> ivo@reporters.net 09/14/01 06:49PM >>>
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to
do nothing" - Edmund Burke
The airplanes that terrorists used to destroy the WTC and ruin
Pentagon were large passenger jets. There were 4-5 hijackers on
each plane and there was more than 50 passengers and crew
members on each plane. The hijackers were armed with nothing
more than knives - exacto-knives, box-cutters to be exact. It
sounds improbable that the passengers and the crew could not
overwhelm the hijackers with the ratio of 10:1 in their advantage.
That does however fit into my speculation that Americans learned
to depend on the rule of law too much. They chose to be less free
in the name of safety. The risk mitigating rules are preferred to the
celebrated American personal liberty. Courage is suspicious and
discouraged, pardon the pun. Common sense is taught to be
secondary to the regulatory law. And everybody expects the
authorities to step in. And when they can't, as this was the case,
then there is a tragedy. But the real tragedy is that many
Americans accepted to trade off their freedom for security and that
the events of 9/11 will, perhaps, point American society even more
in that direction.
ivo
>>A Nationalist is a Globalist who's city has been bombed.<<
(that applies on all cities - Sarajevo, Belgrade, Bhagdad or New
York)
<...>
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From: "Ivo Skoric" <ivo@reporters.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 15:57:17 -0400
Subject: ?
http://www.drudgereport.com/flash91.htm
is this an F16 that was a tad too late?
ivo
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