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Re: <nettime> yes the facebook (tarik)
Tarık Aktaş on Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:11:51 +0200 (CEST)


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Re: <nettime> yes the facebook (tarik)


you really sound funny about this facebook discussion.im perhaps at
the age of your graduate students and i have no facebook (had one
for sure) and as you see i am aware of what a list is. especially
considering this very old one. still i dont think i am outcast. and i
wonder what is it that you feel isolated from. a hyperactive sum of
dynamics constructing the fb youths' purpose of existance? Or do you
want to know the Anu Muhammads of all?

it was a religious holiday when i saw this post and thought this must
be a chitchat or something? because for me there where nothing else to
do. i read some of the posts that were not repeading the problem or
not offering a web application.

this list has lots of advantages like events, source sharings and etc.
still it is an encounter for me which some i avoid getting in to. so
my question is how do you determine your dynamics?

and still i want to discuss lots of things especially on media theory
-oder medienphilosophie, but not media anthropology- (the aim, the
results, the methods, the action...) related events or articles mostly
shared by the list but i guess its not the moment right now. now the
discussion is how to comminucate? (are you serious, in this era? )



tarik

www.nopage.com  (very funny; my aim was to imply i have no site to paste.
but it turns out there is. sure there is)



2009/9/25 <nettime-l-request {AT} kein.org>

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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Has Facebook superseded Nettime? (Patrice Riemens)
>   2. Re: Has Facebook superseded Nettime? (Evan Buswell)
>   3. Re: flushing (Naeem Mohaiemen)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 08:13:12 +0200
> From: "Patrice Riemens" <patrice {AT} xs4all.nl>
> Subject: Re: <nettime> Has Facebook superseded Nettime?
> To: "nettime" <nettime-l {AT} kein.org>
> Message-ID:
>        <652222c2811d426e726deda4ca5a85b0.squirrel {AT} webmail.xs4all.nl>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Right On! And there is possibly a 'geographic' gap as well. Nat Muller
> told me the other day that in Egypt, 'nobody' uses e-mail any longer,
> everything is on FaceBook. That probably holds true in a lot of 'younger'
> countries. If you're not on FaceBook (and/or Twitter), you're out of the
> loop. And my one generation younger friends in Amsterdam tell me basically
> the same. And I do indeed feel being more and more out of the loop.
>
> To me, it looks fairly hopeless: (i) we won't close the numbers gap with
> FB with any f/oss / p2p application. (ii) many of us won't make the jump,
> but if they do, they'll leave the old mediums. (iii) 'free' (as in beer)
> web 2.0 apps are possibly going to collapse in a near future under the
> twin crush of energy over-consumption and financial constraints, leaving
> quite a many people and groups beached.
>
> I dunno, I felt very confy with the old 'new' media, lists, e-mail, etq. I
> remember Geert Lovink saying once "no new media before the old ones are
> finished" ...
>
> I'm afraid I am bowing out.
>
> Cheers all the same,
> patrizio and Diiiinooos!
> (got a new samovar, a real one! http://www.sobaci.com/osman/semaver.jpg
> works on charcoal, and yet is very easy to handle & cool-down & clean...)
>
> > Perhaps this isn't relevant to the analysis of this vs that but I
> > think noone has mentioned a generation gap. None of my graduate
> > students know what a list is (Graduate Fine Arts, School of Visual
> > Arts, granted not new media  but still).
>  <...>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:23:24 -0700
> From: Evan Buswell <ebuswell {AT} gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: <nettime> Has Facebook superseded Nettime?
> To: nettime-l {AT} kein.org
> Message-ID:
>        <c43e79fa0909231223g1ac00311o674d792187943ded {AT} mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> See also riseup.net's crabgrass:
>
> https://we.riseup.net/crabgrass/about
>
> Evan
>
> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 2:35 AM, jaromil <jaromil {AT} dyne.org> wrote:
>
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> >
> > re all,
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 10:58:08PM +0200, Florian Cramer wrote:
> >
> >> What is the solution? Is something like Facebook needed, but as a
> >> decentralized, non-data-minable, user-owned system?
> >
> > it's kind of funny now to report ?here, when about a year ago i didn't
>  <...>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 09:47:11 -0400
> From: Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.mohaiemen {AT} gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: <nettime> flushing
> To: "nettime-l {AT} kein.org" <nettime-l {AT} kein.org>
> Message-ID: <3716DCA3-22CA-4CC1-8114-8CB861E882E5 {AT} gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii;       format=flowed;
>  delsp=yes
>
> We have a similar phenomenon with uttorshuri, one of the Bangladeshi
> activist lists. We get a flood of emails within ten minute span once
> every two weeks. I really want to know about the police attack on
> professor Anu Muhammad a week after he's out of hospital. :-)
>
> ----
> Naeem Mohaiemen
> Skype: naeembangali
>
> On Sep 19, 2009, at 6:00 AM, nettime-l-request {AT} kein.org wrote:
>
>  <...>
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 18:42:09 +0200
> > From: Andreas Broeckmann <ab {AT} mikro.in-berlin.de>
> > Subject: <nettime> flushing nettime-ann down the drain
> > To: nettime-l {AT} kein.org
> > Message-ID: <a06240899c6d4208ac8e0 {AT} [192.168.2.101]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
> >
> > friends,
> >
> > if the nettime-ann administration can only be done every fortnight,
> > you might just as well kill the list altogether - this barrage of
> > messages from the waiting loop is total nonsense - nobody will want
> > to look at any of this.
>  <...>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> #  distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
> #  <nettime>  is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> #  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
> #  more info: http://mail.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
>
> End of nettime-l Digest, Vol 24, Issue 17
> *****************************************
>

--0016361640c545278e047464e25d
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

you really sound funny about this facebook discussion.<div>im perhaps at th=
e age of your graduate students and i have no</div><div>facebook (had one f=
or sure) and as you see i am aware of what a list is. especially considerin=
g this=A0</div>
<div>very old one. still i dont think i am outcast. and i wonder what is it=
 that you feel</div><div>isolated from. a hyperactive sum of dynamics const=
ructing the fb youths&#39; purpose of existance?=A0</div><div><span class=
=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 1=
3px; border-collapse: collapse; ">Or do you want to know the Anu Muhammads =
of all?</span></div>
<div><br></div><div>it was a religious holiday when i saw this post and tho=
ught this must be a chitchat or something?</div><div>because for me there w=
here nothing else to do. i read some of the posts that were not repeading=
=A0</div>
<div>the problem or not offering a web application.</div><div><br></div><di=
v></div><div>this list has lots of advantages like events, source sharings =
and etc. still it is an encounter for me</div><div>which some i avoid getti=
ng in to. so my question is how do you determine your dynamics?</div>
<div><br></div><div>and still i want to discuss lots of things especially o=
n =A0media theory -oder medienphilosophie, but not media anthropology- (the=
 aim, the results, the methods, the action...) related events or articles m=
ostly=A0shared by the list but i guess its not the moment right now. now th=
e discussion is how to comminucate?</div>
<div>(are you serious, in this era? )</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><d=
iv><br></div><div>tarik</div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"http://www.nopa=
ge.com">www.nopage.com</a>=A0=A0(very funny; my aim was to imply i have no =
site to paste. but it turns out there is. sure there is)</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2009/9/25=
  <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nettime-l-request {AT} kein.org";>netti=
me-l-request {AT} kein.org</a>&gt;</span><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
Send nettime-l mailing list submissions to<br>
 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D"mailto:nettime-l {AT} kein.org";>nettime-l {AT} kein.org</a=
><br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D"http://mail.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l"=
 target=3D"_blank">http://mail.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l</a><br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body &#39;help&#39; to<br>
 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D"mailto:nettime-l-request {AT} kein.org";>nettime-l-req=
uest {AT} kein.org</a><br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D"mailto:nettime-l-owner {AT} kein.org";>nettime-l-owner=
 {AT} kein.org</a><br>
<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than &quot;Re: Contents of nettime-l digest...&quot;<br>
<br>
<br>
Today&#39;s Topics:<br>
<br>
 =A0 1. Re: Has Facebook superseded Nettime? (Patrice Riemens)<br>
 =A0 2. Re: Has Facebook superseded Nettime? (Evan Buswell)<br>
 =A0 3. Re: flushing (Naeem Mohaiemen)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 08:13:12 +0200<br>
From: &quot;Patrice Riemens&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:patrice {AT} xs4all.nl";>=
patrice {AT} xs4all.nl</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: &lt;nettime&gt; Has Facebook superseded Nettime?<br>
To: &quot;nettime&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nettime-l {AT} kein.org";>nettime-l=
 {AT} kein.org</a>&gt;<br>
Message-ID:<br>
 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:652222c2811d426e726deda4ca5a85b0.squi=
rrel {AT} webmail.xs4all.nl">652222c2811d426e726deda4ca5a85b0.squirrel {AT} webmail.x=
s4all.nl</a>&gt;<br>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=3Diso-8859-1<br>
<br>
Right On! And there is possibly a &#39;geographic&#39; gap as well. Nat Mul=
ler<br>
told me the other day that in Egypt, &#39;nobody&#39; uses e-mail any longe=
r,<br>
everything is on FaceBook. That probably holds true in a lot of &#39;younge=
r&#39;<br>
countries. If you&#39;re not on FaceBook (and/or Twitter), you&#39;re out o=
f the<br>
loop. And my one generation younger friends in Amsterdam tell me basically<=
br>
the same. And I do indeed feel being more and more out of the loop.<br>
<br>
To me, it looks fairly hopeless: (i) we won&#39;t close the numbers gap wit=
h<br>
FB with any f/oss / p2p application. (ii) many of us won&#39;t make the jum=
p,<br>
but if they do, they&#39;ll leave the old mediums. (iii) &#39;free&#39; (as=
 in beer)<br>
web 2.0 apps are possibly going to collapse in a near future under the<br>
twin crush of energy over-consumption and financial constraints, leaving<br=
>
quite a many people and groups beached.<br>
<br>
I dunno, I felt very confy with the old &#39;new&#39; media, lists, e-mail,=
 etq. I<br>
remember Geert Lovink saying once &quot;no new media before the old ones ar=
e<br>
finished&quot; ...<br>
<br>
I&#39;m afraid I am bowing out.<br>
<br>
Cheers all the same,<br>
patrizio and Diiiinooos!<br>
(got a new samovar, a real one! <a href=3D"http://www.sobaci.com/osman/sema=
ver.jpg" target=3D"_blank">http://www.sobaci.com/osman/semaver.jpg</a><br>
works on charcoal, and yet is very easy to handle &amp; cool-down &amp; cle=
an...)<br>
<br>
&gt; Perhaps this isn&#39;t relevant to the analysis of this vs that but I<=
br>
&gt; think noone has mentioned a generation gap. None of my graduate<br>
&gt; students know what a list is (Graduate Fine Arts, School of Visual<br>
&gt; Arts, granted not new media =A0but still).<br>
=A0&lt;...&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:23:24 -0700<br>
From: Evan Buswell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ebuswell {AT} gmail.com";>ebuswell {AT} gmail=
.com</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: &lt;nettime&gt; Has Facebook superseded Nettime?<br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:nettime-l {AT} kein.org";>nettime-l {AT} kein.org</a><br>
Message-ID:<br>
 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:c43e79fa0909231223g1ac00311o674d79218=
7943ded {AT} mail.gmail.com">c43e79fa0909231223g1ac00311o674d792187943ded {AT} mail.g=
mail.com</a>&gt;<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DUTF-8<br>
<br>
See also <a href=3D"http://riseup.net"; target=3D"_blank">riseup.net</a>&#39=
;s crabgrass:<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://we.riseup.net/crabgrass/about"; target=3D"_blank">https:/=
/we.riseup.net/crabgrass/about</a><br>
<br>
Evan<br>
<br>
On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 2:35 AM, jaromil &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jaromil {AT} dyne=
.org">jaromil {AT} dyne.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br>
&gt; Hash: SHA1<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; re all,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 10:58:08PM +0200, Florian Cramer wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; What is the solution? Is something like Facebook needed, but as a<=
br>
&gt;&gt; decentralized, non-data-minable, user-owned system?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; it&#39;s kind of funny now to report ?here, when about a year ago i di=
dn&#39;t<br>
=A0&lt;...&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 09:47:11 -0400<br>
From: Naeem Mohaiemen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:naeem.mohaiemen {AT} gmail.com";>naee=
m.mohaiemen {AT} gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: &lt;nettime&gt; flushing<br>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:nettime-l {AT} kein.org";>nettime-l {AT} kein.org</a>&quot=
; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nettime-l {AT} kein.org";>nettime-l {AT} kein.org</a>&gt;<br>
Message-ID: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:3716DCA3-22CA-4CC1-8114-8CB861E882E5 {AT} gmai=
l.com">3716DCA3-22CA-4CC1-8114-8CB861E882E5 {AT} gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; =A0 =A0 =A0 charset=3Dus-ascii; =A0 =A0 =A0 forma=
t=3Dflowed; =A0delsp=3Dyes<br>
<br>
We have a similar phenomenon with uttorshuri, one of the Bangladeshi<br>
activist lists. We get a flood of emails within ten minute span once<br>
every two weeks. I really want to know about the police attack on<br>
professor Anu Muhammad a week after he&#39;s out of hospital. :-)<br>
<br>
----<br>
Naeem Mohaiemen<br>
Skype: naeembangali<br>
<br>
On Sep 19, 2009, at 6:00 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:nettime-l-request {AT} kein.org";>=
nettime-l-request {AT} kein.org</a> wrote:<br>
<br>
=A0&lt;...&gt;<br>
&gt; Message: 1<br>
&gt; Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 18:42:09 +0200<br>
&gt; From: Andreas Broeckmann &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ab {AT} mikro.in-berlin.de";>=
ab {AT} mikro.in-berlin.de</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Subject: &lt;nettime&gt; flushing nettime-ann down the drain<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:nettime-l {AT} kein.org";>nettime-l {AT} kein.org</a><br>
&gt; Message-ID: &lt;a06240899c6d4208ac8e0 {AT} [192.168.2.101]&gt;<br>
&gt; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D&quot;us-ascii&quot; ; format=3D&q=
uot;flowed&quot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; friends,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; if the nettime-ann administration can only be done every fortnight,<br=
>
&gt; you might just as well kill the list altogether - this barrage of<br>
&gt; messages from the waiting loop is total nonsense - nobody will want<br=
>
&gt; to look at any of this.<br>
=A0&lt;...&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
# =A0distributed via &lt;nettime&gt;: no commercial use without permission<=
br>
# =A0&lt;nettime&gt; =A0is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,<br>
# =A0collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets<br>
# =A0more info: <a href=3D"http://mail.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l"=
 target=3D"_blank">http://mail.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l</a><br>
<br>
End of nettime-l Digest, Vol 24, Issue 17<br>
*****************************************<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--0016361640c545278e047464e25d--


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