nettime's_karbon_klub on Thu, 30 Apr 2015 15:27:19 +0200 (CEST) |
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<nettime> To Save the=?windows-125digestx2: senalp, hopkins] |
Re: <nettime> To Save the =?windows-1252?Q?World=85_Preface_?= =?windows-1252?Q?by_B?= Orsan Senalp <orsan1234@gmail.com> John Hopkins <jhopkins@neoscenes.net> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: Orsan Senalp <orsan1234@gmail.com> Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_<nettime>_To_Save_the_World=E2=80=A6_Preface_by_B?= Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 19:27:53 +0200 > It is not known what mechanism precipitates a spontaneous negentropic > 'situation' in an open system (the most fundamental example being > the'rise' of Life from ???). Can it be the ability of carbon to form more and 'p2p' connections allowing the formation of molecules out of variety of combination of different elemente, paving way to emergence of richer and higher forms of energy and information flows from sub-quanta to macro levels? > But any such situation requires an energy input from the environs of > that situation... A negentropic situation is one where energy is being > consumed at a faster rate than is the case in simple entropic > decline... exactly... p2p allows more of that, while enclosure means second law of thermodynamics and disorganization! may be not!? Orsan - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:01:03 -0700 From: John Hopkins <jhopkins@neoscenes.net> Subject: Re: <nettime> To Save the =?windows-1252?Q?World=85_Preface_?= =?windows-1252?Q?by_B?= Hallo Orsan - > Can it be the ability of carbon to form more and 'p2p' connections allowing > the formation of molecules out of variety of combination of different > elemente, paving way to emergence of richer and higher forms of energy and > information flows from sub-quanta to macro levels? It has to be more than an 'ability" -- it is a prediliction, tendency, or suchlike. Carbon bonds, especially more complex (organic!) ones are energy-rich (they require an initial energy input to form them), so that there has to be an energy source, and a 'impulse' for that energy to be used to form the bond. This is not a spontaneous process (unless you believe in the spontaneous generation source of Life) and otherwise, this brings us back to the problem of an initial energy usage. >> But any such situation requires an energy input from the environs of that >> situation... A negentropic situation is one where energy is being consumed >> at a faster rate than is the case in simple entropic decline... > > exactly... p2p allows more of that, while enclosure means second law of > thermodynamics and disorganization! may be not!? Heh, as you say that, then I can ony imagine the connection that solves the puzzle: p2p = life = p2p = life ... :-) Life requires (an) energy (source) from (in) its environs. There is the idea that Life came to be precisely because it is an (the!) optimal way to increase the entropy of the universe, something the universe 'wants'. (This is related to the principle of Maximum Entropy Production or MEP). While many principles of p2p are about optimizing the local situation for the human techno-social system, I would argue that the wider aggregate expression of the entire human species on the planet -- with all its idiosyncrasies, political horrors, and personal joys -- represents 'the optimal' situation for our species. Witness the success with which we have propagated! (I pass no moral judgements here.) If p2p was an optimal path in the wider scale, my hunch is that it would have already propagated more widely. That said, it could simply be that the present model of p2p simply needs to be tweaked to absorb a wider view of what human relation is actually comprised. Whatever the case, it has to take into account the energy question -- sources, sinks, and the protocols of energy movement. cheers, JH -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dr. John Hopkins, BSc, MFA, PhD grounded on a granite batholith twitter: @neoscenes http://tech-no-mad.net/blog/ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@kein.org