Felix Stalder on Mon, 28 Jan 2019 14:57:56 +0100 (CET)
|
[Date Prev] [Date Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]
Re: <nettime> No evidence of digital wrong-doing...
|
- To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org
- Subject: Re: <nettime> No evidence of digital wrong-doing...
- From: Felix Stalder <felix@openflows.com>
- Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 14:55:57 +0100
- Autocrypt: addr=felix@openflows.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFI7WkMBCADw9Z0NZWwx9qIGxy/bcH4HmrvjDT9KENComy23fZwsmqDbUGJ+TqElqJ42 +qA6QO4x9Wcam8Q5LHbZaEQv5a/zgkQXIW+vaXY7HWLhONI0G9mjiUqyxUFgIin50eYrB80u E+582q22byr1cTtRCKEgHWYNsbAmmJNQyAr9ue/TChDZ68WVRkMQGkaFHggWsaF1ykmBUAUN T6cmu2S1Dm58Dss2VDPy2V/U6biivHcuk/Wv7duNMp1CIZJe6bglB2K+wIoZ6Cl8PmcZfh6O geYkmq72WCN7r1NU4zlAHPjpPw0gG9IagPagzckxajfkl8cLBmOPeuqMzBx6ucux4Yh5ABEB AAG0I0ZlbGl4IFN0YWxkZXIgPGZlbGl4QG9wZW5mbG93cy5jb20+iQE4BBMBAgAiBQJSO1pD AhsjBgsJCAcDAgYVCAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRALu1uVDJ/yrN0SCACk5qTFlZcGMHgH hL+QV6d3GzEe9pEpdw+L920+58jbOPoLmtykL5p+WCNYlCBrA8v9t4AiD1DmofMlPZIY2fWO +ealUBx66IZ/uIYeP5p8chfCH0GiX4RuhFS3c4LNCJDdsjhquvaK0e+cTxCbpH8/VrT6FgFC +4Rc2Vrt9/gqZPM9TWKZchZVSC5Mj0PKtC58Rrs8G72OEzD31cvs/tt4KAwPepwYfwozHcS6 iSjxryKiUSxx1wMGx7cQ4201Sm/Tk2gMJGOeq7uYcK50MmWyUB7U6qJoM7FeH+xrENK4BLfG L9DncRKiDQYFMaS/Zo5KK8yx7wYZXT8Ay6s84EUcuQENBFI7WkMBCADECRcKfoD22HoS3mk4 qtsv5ibZT0AYi0opRFy844taL7VYVWYR/ltTcXGDapDrFW4AZCImzE3nYdm4S+RKFQP220TK lPrraovRaDkzhMGGlmx8WGoUqJ1GYkCjb2RaJ9QKIaSvf53nMVzsTQhNmVNK+ItxIubQqrGA FVxUJcAIqZkD2sIJmSc6hFzcPWEutHZrbuQ4br6WDzlSZkb8TygnKsFnYVmMkzdqrItjaemf emvSPG5CIC2Y8KdQeyErd8LE3hFDPJ5I/wIP4jRow8SOpMCzZhAee1Xv6uunA4/VsR7h6z5m /yK5MO/koiTBMCG8y1VVYfXMoImk6IYh/hbbABEBAAGJAR8EGAECAAkFAlI7WkMCGwwACgkQ C7tblQyf8qwImQgAgt+w20IMa0BaEGaClyWfCLteoEUHASHE4g+o5x96KfsdR/hx4ZonZBhO auI9kKdPSdBJI5nyQ6V1Fiy7NTLE0riFsAydutvMgRT5L8abZzLa7ue9T1iMyBTbcshRoJzD YlN4Jx0dyzlCtnBrGrZ8+RORi+ha6Fnr2WxyKLq6dpgG8CG8zRPa4kgTdNwEk/uF7wS6uqEp 3drsGoXdsJnULXSfFdWZOLNyYQxCxUMmzG9xuzjGmiCGj4V7XwhVHSprK0XDhjt5V5lIhc77 eB6FTRiAlOYvIQfyUV5OkYZ8+6sKUOF+yoXF4LL/ZP6IckOxCA528Apw0HHedcPApbjrlw==
- Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=openflows.com; s=npomail; t=1548683761; bh=HfkzfMS951eAdoDvsunzrlGODcU1B1YESd1sObzkZhA=; l=3860; h=Subject:To:From:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=e+df7JOmk9uH0R7F6emYvQqq2lwtEEXdUfXaOgR8KX07vsV63NzzosYso5f0lzneg XQDjaTMKVWYf3mKD3ZoaFfIi2H4prwdbH1Qc5BCSO2BDzHPFAXrJMwj3uR2M/aXI+j AJq+u11S8Jt7dFVcNlOOaKXKCmp1DyD0CWBGBVxk=
- In-reply-to: <20190128124635.GA25407@lo.psyced.org>
- Openpgp: preference=signencrypt
- References: <E0EE7DF3-6574-4969-88E5-7290476E6FC7@new-tactical-research.co.uk> <8c1bf7f2-2fed-7c32-af6e-6bd1f2e99e0f@lowtech.org> <8a6fb463-ad26-77a7-ed29-d8673dc07268@gmail.com> <c8da022787d6253efd60373f7d5c2e5f@xs4all.nl> <91E490C8-2FE1-4AB2-A149-546168B2AE75@new-tactical-research.co.uk> <20190128124635.GA25407@lo.psyced.org>
- User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0
On 28.01.19 13:46, carlo von lynX wrote:
> Even better when expert knowledge is in check by liquid
> democracy rather than size-limited citizen assemblies.
> We actually have a new technology that solves this
> challenge but it is still being used too rarely.
As far as I know from the German Pirate Party, the use of liquid
democracy has been pretty problematic, to say the least. But anyway,
these are different things, as David said, no either or.
Citizens' Assemblies are for a smaller number of citizens coming
together multiple times over longer period of times (say one year),
discussing, in depth and with experts, contentious issues. The
advantages of a small number is that you can be more clear with the
selection process (ensuring a minimum of diversity) and you can
materially suppor the participants (again, important is you want to
include people who canno affort "free labor".).
The advantage of such assemblies really lies in the qualitative
dimension, people from different backgrounds being forced to listen to
each other, respond face-to-face to each other, and seeing where
agreements can be reached and were disagreement might be rephrased to
change the question into something more productive.
This is really hard to replicate electroncially and with large number of
participants.
But to iniate this process now for Brexit, it's really too late. This
takes a long time, and it would mean, in effect, to day inside the EU
until the process is finished, and then we will see again, depending on
the outcome of the process.
What I've always wondered by Labor hasn't come up with their version of
Brexit and then called for a new elections to make sure they have the
majority to bring it through parliament. At least, then people could
vote, even indirectly, for their prefered version of the thing, without
having to re-do the vote, which would be problematic, to say the least.
Felix
--
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| http://felix.openflows.com
|Open PGP http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?search=0x0bbb5b950c9ff2ac
Attachment:
signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
# distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
# <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
# collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
# more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
# archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@kein.org
# @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: