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Re: [oldboys] re:HAL JO HO HO
rachel baker on 10 Jul 2001 15:15:26 -0000

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Re: [oldboys] re:HAL JO HO HO

Hi Debra and Mathilde

Its their SOCIAL skills I worry about, not their coding or bike-drawing
Personally I'm all for segregation - they may code like gods,
these male geeks, but do they, y'know, WASH ever?

Sure, we can join in the male happy hacker family, its just that we have to
put up
with their BAD JOKES, dysfunctional habits and social ineptitudiness. And
I'm sorry, its a terrible stereotype but  IT IS TRUE.
I dont wanna hang out with people like that for an entire 3 days! No matter
how brilliant they are at reverse-engineering a NUCLEAR POWER STATION.

Female geeks are just, socially speaking, far COOLER somehow and, therefore,
up to US to lead the social revolution.

Thats why I wanted to know if anyone here was going.


----- Original Message -----
From: dsolomon <dsolomon {AT} xs4all.nl>
To: <oldboys {AT} lists.ccc.de>
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 10:34 AM
Subject: [oldboys] re:HAL JO HO HO

> Dear Rachel c.s.,
> RIGHT ON MATHILDE!  I'm with you and I too will be attending the HAL.
> Also it is on the campus (Universiteit Twente) where the Dutch Art
> Institute (www.dutchartinstitute.nl) is situated.
> reConnie:
> >what most women feel when they are entering the hacking scene (without
> boyfriend hacker who brought her >there) is >an uneasiness and feeling
> uncomfortable, because the hacker scene is purely male. THIS IS STRANGE.
> Not that strange actually. Guys simply are more interested in the
> MECHANICAL workings of things in a fiddly-blinder sort-of-way. I know this
> comment will bring a anti-bio-deterministic RASH OF SHIT down upon my head
> but, ala. I can accept difference without feeling excluded. Last HIP I
> recorded the introduction of the PGP code into Europe. MY INTEREST. One
> doesn't have to wait for an invitation to join in 'someone else's'
> initiative. This you know well, Connie.
> Re:above::: THIS DOESNT MEAN that women are ill-suited to working/coding
> etc, it just means they may have natural aptitudes which allow them to do
> the same things in a different way. Of course we are all fans of diversity
> in perspective and skills, aren't we?
> Interesting gender experiment: (recently re-exposed in a BBC documentary
> on children growing up by that 'famous' pediatrician Lord So and So - I
> think its called Child of Our Time) where adults were asked to draw a
> bicycle. It seems it is possible to GENERALLY indicate someone's gender by
> the way they draw a bike.  - meaning certain trends were visible in
> drawings of bikes indicating an interest in different aspects of a
> bicycle. Cool for the differences, BFD in using this as a defence for
> maintaining MONOCULTURE.
> with : the folks that want to join in and not with the folks that created
> it in the first place. WHY? Obviously they (the folks who created the
> monoculture) have no aptitutde for inclusion, or there wouldn't
> be monoculture in the first place. Let's be practical. If youre INTO
> inclusion, and being included GET DOWN TO IT instead of winging. We're
> NOT where we were 20 years ago.
> Please Ladies, draw a bike.
> Warm regards,
> Debra Solomon
> >    Anybody going to the Hackers At Large festival in  August?
> http://www.hal2001.org/ J If I know there will be substantial female
> representation I may be tempted, but the idea of being surrounded by
> over-excited,Jself-congratulatory male geeks makes me feel queasy. J
> rachel
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