kabubah on Mon, 7 Dec 1998 17:37:47 +0100 (CET)

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<nettime> Special Report

subjective report to mnews-den haag

[DRAFT VERSION] the truth tables are tmp.

Károly Tóth visual artist attended the lecture at De Waag, the Society for
Old & New Media, in Amsterdam. The lecture was held by Lev Manovitch. The
lecture was announced on the nettime-l mailing list in a newsletter
<nettime> Lev Manovich/Geert Lovink - Digital Constructivism see text far
below. I want to put some critical marks related to the lecture. Being an
emigrant, i criticize everything what is dutch, and moving. Since the
so-called amsterdam cyber übergound criticises also everithing what is
dutch while moving, it is a lucky coincidence for me. 

Lev Manovitch is not Dutch, he is a Russian born American. I criticize Lev
Manovitch because he is moving. 

I became interested and had many unanswered questions after reading the
text on nettime-l. So I was moving to amsterdam to attend the lecture.

1. the train ticket costs about F 38,0 to go to A:dam, which is a big
shame. It is an expensive sport to just go to Amsterdam and just sit there
and sit there and listen. But that's life in Holland. I am not a poor
emigrant, so i did it without asking subsidy from the art m. It is still
an occasional thing which i can not afford every day. 

2. I at 1 soup-of-the-day with bread drunk 1 vodka-tonic. The soup was
about F9,0 very expensive, the prize of the vodka-tonic I don't remember,
becouse after eating the soup, i was not so hungry anymore, and became
less sharp minded. Being an east european emigrant it is a part of my
cultural heritage to pay any prize for a vodka-tonic. 

3. Geert Lovink is THE media guru of the amsterdam cyber übergorund.
Amsterdam is the capitol of Holland. The capitol of Holland means for me
sex, drugs, cyber übergound, and very vell founded artists, supported by
the art m. Which support reinforces the stereotype, that A:dam is the
center of the Duch art world. and the so called digital culture. The
lecture was not attended by many people, they seemed to already know each
other, they also seamed to read the text of Lovink and Manovitch. It
appeard to be a social event, of people who already know each other. I was
also seamed to know quite a lot people. I have seen already at least 40%
of the people of the cca. 20. Some of them where quite communicative. Some
not. I wondered why: I thought:  
3a. They did not know me 
3b. They did know me, but they did not want to know me. 
3c. They did know I was from Rotterdam, and they did not want to know me 
3c.a. They did know I was from A:dam, and they did not want to know me 
3d. They already know me 
3e. They did not know who I am. 
3f. They know who am I.
3g. They did not care. 
3h. They did not see me. 
3j. We all where slightly paranoid, which is well known in the art world, 
and recently present in the cyber überground.
3k.I had a good chat with quite a lot of woman, I met Diana Ozon, nice
person, I met a journaliste, I have seen her many times at V2 in
Rotterdam. I still do not know her name. I think I should introduce myself
next time, now I do know her. 
3l. Next time she is not going to know who am I.
3l/a Actually she do know my name, but I do not her's. 
3m. Geert Lovink did know me. 
3n. I did know Geert Lovink. 

So it seamed that while I was from rotterdam i did not left the artworld.
So it gave me some simulation of security. You could have some beer and
eat some peanuts. It must be the art world. 

I was just wondering why where there only 20 people.
3n.a. They did not know who Lev Manovich was
3n.b. Lev Manovitch is  Russian.
3n.c. They do not know Manowitch.
3n.d. Lev Manowitch is not Japaneese.
3n.e. Lev Manowitch is not cyber überground.
3n.f.  Lev Manovitch has an academical background and (this is only a
guess), reasonable salary.
3n.g. I think Lev Manowitch is a nice person.
3n.g. Many people with an academical background are nice persons.
3n.h. Many nice persons have a reasonable salary.
3n.i. Lev Manowitch knows a lot of media history and russian avantgarde.
3n.i.a. Lev Manovitch knows a lot of about russian avantgarde film.
3n.j.  I do not have a reasonable salary.
3n.k. I am a fan of the russian avantgarde.
3n.k.a. He thinks, the new media is much like an avangarde film.
3n.k.b I think he thinks that the new media is an avantgarde film.

4. the lecture did not say more than the text i have already read on the
nettime-l. It said less, There was not much time. I become suspitious when

I asked him if it is a strategical set to put it that way or he means it
do i want to be azonositva with this paralell? 

4a. L.M. statement : digital/internet  art = avantgarde

5a. am i an avantgarde artist?
5b. yes becouse it is cool.
5c. NO F.  WAY! because it is elitair avant=voor garde=militaristic trash
5d. Stalin destroyed it becouse he wanted art for the people
5e. Am i a stalinist?
5f. paradox

western abstraction=reductive
russian abstraction=revelative > icons

in eastern europe more than 50% of the comp. programmers are woman in
holland it is less than 10% (guess)

what european software? > read nettime article how about the non latin
languages: czeh, russian, slowak, serb, kroat, finnish, slovenian,
macedonian, greek

the hungarian has no knowledge femail/male forms of words, it makes no
diff. there is only 3 foms to express events in time (geen onvoltooide
.... tijd : has been, etc.) past present future that's it the struct. of
the grammar is totally different from the latin based lang. 

the known prog. lang. are representing the west. way of thinking/doing
Lord F'cking Owen
next vojvodina?

tito and caucescu ware all supported by the west.
eur. s.ware.........a joke?
i hope not
yeltsin is also supported by the west
saddam has been
what the hell is there NOW actually in kuwait?
M.I.T.C.H. ?
el nino

ces't ne pas un cigar
axioma: I love You Because You Give Me Food. (by Tacsika, my cat)



name: Károly Tóth
address: Gedempte Zalmhaven 923, 3011 BT Rotterdam NL
tel: +31 (0)10 2400390 or 2400391
e-mail: zeroglab@freemail.c3.hu
if you do not get answer within a few days,
please write to this address: terra@tip.nl
webpage: http://www.tip.nl/users/terra
THE NEGATIVE RIVER project/workshop @DEAF98 Rotterdam NL
my email and homepage addresses has been changed recently.
the old homepage address was: http://users.bart.nl/~terra
this homepage still seems to work,
but I do not have access to it anymore.
the old e-mail address was : terra@bart.nl

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