|Dmytri Kleiner on Tue, 6 Mar 2012 10:45:54 +0100 (CET)|
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|Re: <nettime> Mute article on Bitcoin|
On 05.03.2012 21:26, Jaromil wrote:
I'd argue is an error to quickly frame into a macroeconomic perspective the narrative opened by Bitcoin.
Yet, if a currency is to have some sort of emancipatory potential, it must affect the distribution of wealth and flows of incomes, and thereby should have a macroeconomic effect, if it doesn't, than it's significance is questionable.
Let me refer you to the work of Colin Ward, whom I'm recently reading. I find it hard to ignore that the possibilities for constituency opened by tools for more agile monetary creation are related to grass-roots movements as LETS systems, and such.
I'm certainly enthusiastic about LETS, since mutual credit deals with liquidity demands much better than specie. In the Telekommunisten IRC channel we have had discussions about the possibility of building a ripple like mutual credit system on tom of the bitcoin infrastructure. This could be interesting. However, even this doesn't answer the key social questions, since the ever concentrating accumulation of capital is the primary obstacle to a fairer society, not lack of exchange or credit instruments.
To boil it down to dialectics, an approach I'm sure you relate with more than I do, InI believe that the strained relationships between deeply different economical contexts as in City / Countryside, North / South for instance can be tackled by the creative use of such tools.
I dont believe that, and have a hard time understanding how oppressive relationships underwritten with violence can be overcome by using different counting tokens for the circulation of the negligible retained wealth among the oppressed.
Considered the entity of current systemic problem in finance, I'd argue that the democratization of tools for value circulation represents a pragmatic attempt to get over financial tyranny.
In what way is BitCoin "democratic?" Is gold or other specie "democratic?" Does the digital nature of BitCoin make this specie somehow democratic? You could say that the national currency of country is democratic, as the government can create currency and finance public investment and social initiatives, and also destroy money to level accumulation moderate prices. I understand that government is captured by capital, and uses it's monetary and fiscal power in the interests of the financial elite, but not withstanding, for a currency to be called "democratic," it must be able to perform simular social functions, directing capital democratically towards social ends, etc. How can BitCoin do this?
Experiences like http://www.torekes.be and others we try to document on http://DYNDY.net provide a lively commentary of practices around such visions.
Don't get me wrong, I'm extremely interested in alternative and complimentary currency, and have been for several decades. Yet, just like other tools, they can only play an extremely limited role and this role is frequently greatly exaggerated by their proponents. The more pressing questions is how we fund investment towards commons-based production in the first place, how do we mobilize the required labour and wealth, from a starting point where nearly all existing wealth is controlled by the beneficiaries of capitalist production (or what you term the "financial tyranny"). The question of how we circulate the products of commons-based production is left as a relatively interesting detail, and certainly worthy of attention, but nothing more. Also, there's no reason to believe that if we escape "financial tyranny" that we will retain the practice of exchanging goods for prices at all, since once the capitalist mode of production gives way, the capitalist mode of circulation may also diminish, leaving gift economies and public wealth in it's wake. It's not easy to see in how cryptographic specie can play a significant role in this. The Telekommunist Manifesto and DYNDY where launched together at De Balie, so the projects are siblings by birth in a way. I look forward to learning more about your perspective. -- Dmyri Kleiner Venture Communist # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: email@example.com