scotartt on Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:23:38 +0200 (MET DST)

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<> Re: many questions!

please remove me from this list. i didn't ask to be on it. this is
highly rude, not good net.manners.


eon wrote:
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> From: fokky <>
> Subject: many questions!
> >Once again, there is an OPEN LIST for Nettime, free of
> >any unwanted censorship, hidden agendas, personal tastes,
> >anal-retentive book editors/librarians, respiratory diseases,
> >and other information-hostile elements that have corrupted
> >the intial mission of the nettime list as established by the
> >founders of Nettime in Venice, June, 1995.
> A deep sigh of relief... and many thanks to those who took this initiative.
> A few questions and remarks though:
> 1. Most subscribers were not present at the initial nettime meeting in
> Venice; so how important can that initial mission still be, how much of it
> should be reformulated, or rather: do we need anything like an initial
> mission at all?
> 2. On nettime-l discussion about the how and what of the list itself -
> practical issues - were mostly kept in the dark, or held in small circles;
> how about If you ask my opinion, I think it's extremely
> important to discuss these issues thoroughly and openly, on the list
> itself, so that the greatest possible number of people are kept informed
> and are able to participate - drawback: more traffic. Openness vs. less
> overloaded mailboxes. What do you want?
> 3. Announcements... I compiled the announcer for nettime-l, being quite
> aware that this was a tricky and unpure thing to do (contributing to the
> mechanism of moderation which, in fact, I'm very much opposed to), and my
> motives for that were: keeping at least some of the nettime
> responsibilities outside the usual circles ('who the f* is that fokky?' -
> someone even thought I was not a person, but a script, which in fact I
> consider a huge compliment), and practicing my own little tiny and
> hopelessly naive part of the now rather hypocrit idea of 'gift economy' -
> sigh. So much for public confession; right now all nettime-l announcements
> are being sent to me, and I want to ask you: do I bounce them to
> nettime-free? Or does anyone ( volunteer to host a separate
> announcer-free list? Things being as they are now, I quit compiling the
> weekly announcer digest (_and_ consider unsubscribing from nettime-l, but
> that's another thing). But I'd like to know as soon as possible where I can
> send the "raw" announcements to. Hopefully this problem will auto-regulate
> soon, when people become aware that they can send the announcements
> immediately to the list (which one??) instead of to me.
> 4. Policies of this list. I would like to make some strong (probably
> impossible) statements about how I feel nettime-free should be maintained -
> my personal opinion, perhaps (hopefully) controversial, expressed in order
> to start a discussion about this.
> - nettime-free shall not bring out any kind of printed or even xeroxed
> publications. NETtime, remember?? Do we take this medium seriously or what?
> (there's a damn lot of work to be done here, btw...) If people want to find
> a channel to get their writing published on paper / for money somewhere,
> let them please look for it elsewhere (or create their own forum for this
> specific goal) and not impose their agendas upon those who want to get
> something done *online*. Nettime-free shall try to find different channels
> to distribute important content that is being exchanged here.
> - nettime-free shall not organize physical meetings (ljubljana-style) and
> shall radically avoid offline decision-making. Why? Because this kind of
> stuff automatically creates 'inner circles' of people who are more involved
> than others, and automatically deprives a considerable amount of
> subscribers from important information. In my perception (which can be
> wrong, I was not present at the meeting, grin) the big nettime gathering in
> Ljubljana last year was a crucial point in the degeneration of the list.
> Again: let's try to get things done with the instruments that are to
> *every* subscriber's disposal - in this case: email. Again: do we take this
> medium seriously or what?
> - nettime-free shall strive to be as independent from any existing
> institution as possible.
> - nettime-free has no spokespersons, no representatives. No-one can attach
> her/his name to this initiative.
> - nettime-free shall strive for self-regulation. I.e. every author is
> responsible for her/his own writing, mistakes, sloppy formatting; and if
> subscribers are displeased with specific pieces of writing (which they, for
> example, find offensive or consider spam), they are kindly asked to get in
> touch with the author through personal (offlist) communication. May I
> remind everyone (and I'm truly sorry to be so patronizing ;) again of the
> existence of email filters, procmail and the nice and shiny delete button?
> Traffic and overload are a problem, unless everyone takes her/his own
> responsibility. (If you want to know about my own situation: I have very
> little time to read things thoroughly, only have 1,4Mb email disk space to
> my disposal, size checked every day - so i'm quite familiar with stripped
> mailboxes - and the extremely expensive Belgian phone fees devour a very
> considerable amount of my not-very-high income. Still I wouldn't dream of
> missing this horrible daily portion of email overload :)
> 5. Some final questions and remarks:
> - can anyone subscribe to this list, without approval from anyone else?
> - will nettime-free have a website / archive? (we can have it archived at
> - five minutes' work, I can take care of it)
> - I would like to ask to have the following line removed from the footer:
> # is not infected with TB or other respiratory diseases
> Why? because this initiative is too important, and shouldn't be trivialised
> by personal vengeance motives, imho - even without TB, nettime-l would have
> created its own other TB-like moderator personality, that's the crucial
> point I guess, and the man has suffered enough from this, I think, even if
> you're not particularly fond of him.
> Expecting a lot from this,
> many greetings,
> fokky.
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